The Jews Were Never Slaves in Egypt

By October 2, 2012Bible

Christians still cling to the opinion that their Bible is infallible. They delight in telling us that the Bible is the inspired word of God, even though it’s well documented that the Bible contains more than 400 contradictions, not to mention that it reflects the Bronze-age morality of the time.

Well, here comes science to kick religion in the nuts once again: the Jews were never slaves in Egypt!

This never happened…

It turns out that there is no archaeological evidence of any kind relating to a separate settlement of religious people in Egypt during that time. There is also no evidence of any kind relating to a mass migration across the Sinai Peninsula.

If things did indeed happen as it says in the Bible (and the Torah), there would have to be some archaeological evidence. But there is none.

Further, there is no evidence of any kind that Egypt even used slaves, and certainly no evidence that they enslaved an entire nation. The workers that built the pyramids are known to be well payed Egyptians. The pyramids weren’t even built in the right time period, being 800 to 2,000 years older than the supposed “Exodus”.

The same techniques used to track the migration patterns of ancient humans by examining DNA also show that there was absolutely no procreation between ancient Egyptians and ancient Israelites during the time that the story was supposed to have taken place. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if an entire nation was enslaved for hundreds of years, surely there would have been some inter-breeding.

In short, this story never happened.

And this isn’t even “news” – of course, the scientific community is across the subject, but even conservative Jewish sources admit that there is no evidence (but they still have faith! And some stuff about metaphors and such…)

To drive the point home, I’m even providing sources for you (although, a quick Google search could give you dozens more…)

Basically, everyone in the know admits that what is written in the Bible and Torah simply didn’t happen, not at all, not even the non-supernatural, core plot…

So next time you hear someone tell you the Bible is infallible (or anything about Passover whatsoever) send them one of these links:

  • reader

    I agree with what is written but just to be accurate ..the Jewish bible never claimedjews built the pyramids the Hebrew description is “arei miskenot”

    • I am so proud of you all for making this stand for the mureerdd babies who never had a chance. I wish I could have joined you!!!As you say Viktor, this is just the start, and knowing you as I do now, you will not give up until we get results for those innocent lives and for all in the future too!!!!A huge well done to all those who attended, you are all saviours and may God bless you for speaking up in defence of our lost souls.You all have my utmost support and respect. FANTASTIC xxDo you think you can possibly get a link to the TV coverage when it goes live???

      • How is he defending baby killers?

        He’s simply showing that there is no actual evidence of a major Jewish presence in Egypt.

        There is evidence of some (a few names here and there) but nothing that would be anywhere near the claimed amount in the Bible.

        • wally

          because if you don’t believe the Bible is the INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD then you must be an atheist-liberal-commie-abortion-supporting-satanist-baby-killer

      • flame

        i just wanted to ask why they baby killers. look at the statistics of pope Benedict and read about the aids epidemic in Africa and his response to it and ask yourself who is the real baby killer.

  • Saulot

    LOL! did they said that the jewish people built the piramids? NOPE.. please .. read the article again ..

  • didi sobe

    Finally you have a blog without any reliable facts but yet you believe what you don’t know . You still have some time to gather some more informations befor it is too late for you .

    • admin

      I don’t know what your definition of “facts” are, but I’m pretty sure this is a first for me, to write a blog post with links to references and research. What more do you want?!

    • rachel magowan

      What facts are there in the bible?

      • David

        You want Facts:
        The existence of the Jewish nation
        King David and his succession of progeny.
        Places in Isreal – Sodom & Gomorrah
        En Gedi, Mount Of Olives, Megiddo, Jebusite (Jerusalem)
        The Egyptian Dynasty
        The Hittites
        The Assyrians
        The Babylonian Empire
        The Persian Empire
        The Greeks
        The Romans
        All the places, people in the book of Acts
        (Historians will affirm)
        The existence of the Church
        non biblical sources – Pliny the younger mentions Jesus
        People like Herod, Pilate, Nero….
        undeniable historical FACTS…
        Too many to detail here.

        • Gadfly47

          Pliny the younger did not mention Jesus by name. He reported to the government on his efforts to persecute Christians which was considered a superstitious cult at the time and illegal under Roman law.

          The fact that there is a mount of olives and there was a Babylonian Empire does not prove the Bible is accurate in all things. New York is a real place. Does that mean Spider Man real?

        • Pliny the younger mentions HE HEARD about a guy… Pliny was not an eye witness so does not corroborate anything other than having heard and being a third person.

          NONE of the alleged disciples wrote a single thing concerning “jesus.” The gospels do not agree – two don’t mention “virgin” birth at all; nowhere in the bible is there any confirmation “Mary” lived or where she came from…

          It is a STORY based on many much earlier stories and in most cases identical to those stories.

          • Bill Smith

            If you found some piece of 3,000 year old pottery you would believe that everything written on it was factual, yet you don’t want to believe the Bible. I find this to be absurd.

          • You’re missing the point entirely, being there IS NO POTTERY or any other thing that substantiates this story.

            You find it absurd evidence is required to support a claim, but you ask for no such evidence at all and claim the book proves itself? IF that is the case, then the Qur’an, the book of mormon and Harry Potter are all just as real.

        • The other problem with your assertion here is this: Adam/Eve NEVER existed. DNA – mitochondrial DNA in particular – proves this couple never existed. The “creation” myth is common in most, much older religions.

          Given it is a fact this couple never existed, original “sin” also doen’t exist, which instantly makes the rest of the story redundant.

          If you also understand the political motivations of the Roman Empire and the goals of the council of Nicea, you will also know why the “saviour” story and its character were fabricated, why a crucifixion was alleged and what the effect of those two things were on the Jewish community of the time (and now).

          Pliny the younger does NOT mention Jesus. He mentions, many, many years after the fact – he heard about some guy… that is not eyewitness and cannot be eyewitness: Pliny was not alive at the alleged time of christ, one and two, the entire virgin birth story is not only NOT in all four gospels, it is entirely impossible unless you really are going to invoke magic.

          The FACT is, unless your “angels” or “spirits” or “gods” have genes, your human woman could NOT, under any circumstances have produced a male child without the contribution of the Y chromosome required. The story is utterly impossible.

          It IS possible some noisy rabbi was afoot at the suggested time but there is utterly no way, and given Adam/Eve being myth, no reason for this person.

        • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

          yes because NY exists, then spiderman does as well correct? lmao.
          also, sodom and gomorrah are not names of any city know to have existed.
          Pliny never spoke about jesus in the sense as a witness. Only in what the christians believed. also, he never used the name jesus. research what chrestus actually means. it’s a title like satan.

  • Revealer

    You are warm… but no cigar. The Jews were never slaves in Egypt. You are correct in saying that never happened. What you don’t realize is that it never happened because the people who call themselves Jews today are not the people of the book. So, in essence, they have nothing to do with the story. No DNA, no history, no right to the land, etc. When you find the real people of the book AND you find out who the original Egyptians actually were/are..then you’ll be on to it. That’s for you to search out. You won’t believe me just telling you….Peace

    • admin

      If you read the article and references, you’d see there’s no evidence of ANY body of people being enslaved during that time.

      • rachel magowan

        You are correct. It was rare for the egyptians to use slavery at all. Only egyptians were allowed to work on pyramids and other sacred artifacts. There eere no foreigners in egypt until the 2nd intermediate period and that was during time of war with nubia and other southern territories. Egypt kept its borders closed and held great disdain for outsiders.

  • mr smith

    so r u saying the 10 plagues & the parting of the red sea didn’t happen?

  • mr smith

    what are the 400 contradictions in the BIBLE or maybe you are incorrect on that…please list then…thx

    • admin

      Here’s a list of 439 Bible contradictions. And no, the 10 plagues and the parting of the red sea didn’t happen.

      • Glenn

        2 Peter 3:16b ESV

        There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

        There are no contradictions. Only ignorant and unstable interpretations. As the creationist appears ignorant and uneducated to the evolutionist on the subject of evolution, so does the atheist appear ignorant and uneducated to the Jew or Christian on the subject of Scripture.

        • Mike Kirby

          Kindly inform us when biblical scripture successfully puts a man on the moon. Until then, I’ll assume that science is less ignorant than faith in myths.

      • David

        I don’t think you would know a contradiction if it slapped
        you in the face.
        All these alleged contractions are harmonizations and variants in manuscripts NOT contradictions…the compiler of the list needs a textual critizism 101 class.

  • Kim

    There is one thing that this article got right…the Jews never were slaves in Egypt, but the Hebrew slaves were!!!!

    • Amber

      I’m sensing you didn’t really read the article:/

    • Joe Hayes

      Hmmm. I like the cut of your crazy jib Kim! Where can i subscribe to your newsletter?

  • Ian


    Did a religious person touch you when you were a child? You know what I mean right?
    You really have issues the bible and religion.
    How about committing to something more practical and meaningful with your life?
    Just saying.

    • mdx_jsilver

      Your fucking retarded comment is completely besides the point. Stopping people from believing something that is unfounded and unproven is not unpractical or unmeaningful. Anything that can be done to disinfect these unproven beliefs is actually a service to humanity. Less practical is believing in a wizard in the sky.

  • Nikki

    If at any point you realize that you’re not exactly sure why you’re doing this, that would be your real chance to start seeking after the truth. If that happens, I hope you do not pass it up. The Bible says seek and you will find. This is truth

  • amie

    I would like to pose the possibility that the reason that you can’t find evidence of large scale slavery in Egyptian history, it is because you are not looking in the right place. If you are looking in the 18th-19th dynasties, which many incorrectly do (a topic for another conversation), you are absolutely correct. There is no sign of such events. However, if you look in the 12-13 dynasty (Middle Kingdom) you will find quite a bit of corroborating evidence. In the later half of the 12th dynasty you will find a large semitic slave population in Kahun and Gurab. During this time the cities Bubastis, Qantir and Ramses were built. In addition, the dynasty’s 6th king, Amenemhet III had 2 daughters and no son. Josephus writings tell of his daughter finding a child in a river which she raised with hopes that he would be heir of the kingdom. Apparently, it never happened and she, Sobekneferu, briefly ruled the kingdom.
    Archeological findings in Kahun give us wooden boxes in the floors of the homes, in which they found the remains of babies, some with 2-3 to a box. In the 13th Dynasty, during the reign of Neferhotep I, we have record of semitic slave population leaving. We also have no record of Neferhotep’s mummy and his son never ruled in Egypt. There are more findings which seem to coincide with the Biblical account and I can give you the source of these findings if you are really interested in them. I just didn’t want you to give the impression that there is absolutely no evidence when in fact there is.

    • Яeey Mbonge

      There was an influx of foreigners between the 12th and 13th dynasties. I’m not sure if the kmtnu can be blamed for foreign peoples’ barbaric practices. That’d be like claiming the Ukrainians are evil because Russians invaded and sent people to gulags.. makes no sense.

      And Josephus’ writing have been proven to be at least partial medieval forgeries..

      You christians need to face reality.. the bible is a bunch of bullocks..

      • VegasNevada

        A great place to look would be Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannan. He has many books and many lectures on YouTube. It’s my understanding that there were Hibiru/Hapiru people (came to be pronounced/known as, Hebrew) who came with the invaders between the 12th and 13th dynasties. They had moved into Egypt due to a famine. Africans usually (we’re talking ancient Africa, before any outside influence, this being the first) had open arms for anyone in need of help, very humane and spiritual people. (It would eventually be the downfall of many empires and kingdoms, as people took advantage of this kindness and cared nothing for them). Long story short, these invaders took over Egypt and the true Egyptian leader, Thutmoses (can’t remember which one) was in the south and basically said, these folks have got to go. He and the other Egyptians got together and made it happen, but being humane at their core, gave them a choice…one…if you can’t accept Egyptian laws, etc., you’re free to leave and two…if you can, then you are welcome to stay. The people who chose to leave, supposedly didn’t go through a parted sea, but walked back over a 16 mile landmass the way they originally came. The Hibirus/Hapirus were among the Egyptians for a long time. They might’ve had some of their own ways, but being amongst a dominate Egyptian population, many Egyptian stories, laws, culture rubbed off on them. Egyptian boys were circumcised, so Hibiru/Hapiru boys started being circumcised. Egyptians had laws, the 42 Negative Confessions, they were condensed into what we all know as The 10 Commandments. Egyptians had their trinity story Osiris, Horus, and Isis…much of the story sounds extremely similar to stories coming from the Bible. Egyptians even had a “devil”…Set or Seth (later to most people, Satan). He was the ruler of the desert (sound familiar? the heat associated with Hel*) and storms, disorder, violence, foreigners in Ancient Egypt, etc. Many people try to say West Africans have nothing to do with ancient Egyptians, etc. Just don’t even believe that. Everyone knows about the Sahara desert, but on a map (especially older ones), just north of Benin, is The Desert of Seth/s…Back to the Hibiru/Hapiru people in Egypt…Christianity began in Egypt, the foundations of it in its purest form. It did not come from Europe. As a matter of fact, in ancient times, common everyday folks (check out the accounts of Panteus and Boteus) if you asked them where Jesus (called Yeshua because there was no “J” sound) was from, they’d say he was born in a cave in Ethiopia. There were no cathedrals or churches in Europe/Rome in these times. Christians were being persecuted, so they worshipped where they buried their dead, the catacombs. So, the closer it is to the time of Christ (earliest depictions following his death), if you look at the images in the catacombs, you’ll see that he is a black man as are some of his disciples. The changes started taking place after the first of many council meetings (courtesy of Constantine) shaping and tailoring Christianity more to the people of Europe. Dates, birthplaces, etc. were all eventually changed. Example, born in a cave in Ethiopia to born in a manger in Bethlehem. Eventually, you get to MichaelAngelo, DaVinci, and the Borgias modeling as Jesus and the disciples, Mary, etc., so hair and skin all changed. Another person of interest in Christianity is Mary/Miriam Magdalene. She too, is from Ethiopia (she might’ve been Ethiopian and Egyptian). There is a town in Ethiopia called Magdala/Makdala, so she was Mary/Miriam from Magdala/Makdala, Ethiopia. Back to Egypt…you also have to keep in mind, that there was no Jim Crow or segregation, etc. Some people, especially the ones who stayed in Egypt, intermarried and had families. And I think people are confused these days, because of Hollywood movies, etc. Meaning, Hibiru/Hapiru people were simply another type of black person. African people have the genes in them to make every type of person there is, so you might have some Africans with straight thin noses, straight or wavy hair, afro hair, beaded hair (like Buddha’s), very dark, dark, medium, reddish, yellow, light, and albino skin, and different eyes. Based on location and environment, these traits pop out. There was NO Europe at this time, no Rome, no Greece and even though there might’ve been people in those areas (and there were many different types of Greeks/Romans and they are not the type of white/European we see today, in fact, one of the first settlements of Greece came from the migration of Africans listed as Garamantes-they migrated, because the Sahara desert was fertile, then it dried up, so they followed one of 3, now fossilized rivers out- from Libya, so Greeks would’ve been a mixture in their very beginnings of black and eventually some type of white people, centuries later), they had not made any contact with anyone else, yet. There are many factors that are never touched on in a mainstream history class, no mainstream information on any of this authentic, documented history. They are keeping people in the dark.

        • paul brandel

          That’s afrocentric bulls**t. and Btw did you know there have been a archaological discovery in Varna,Bulgaria of a white civilization that is older than the Egyptians!Also its a fact that north Africa,including Egypt was multicultural,not just blacks.

        • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

          Lmao. No. the 10 commandments are part of 512 ( or something to that effect.) commandments. Should we pick apart the rest of your nonense? lol.

          • Shaun Keefe

            Its 613 actually

          • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

            I knew the 500 mark was off. I was just so tired and lazy didn’t feel like looking it up. lol. thx. Shaun.

    • Jeffrey


  • michael bylander the great

    It’s been shown that there are massive *in the ground graves*, which are believed to be the actual builders of the pyramids. Slaves don’t get graves. If you base knowledge off the Bible, get a real education and stop being a peon! =)

  • Jonathon Wisnoski

    Best, to the point article on this subject I have found so far.
    But you are mistaken in “there is no evidence of any kind that Egypt even used slaves”.
    We know that they had at least a few slaves on occasion. We know that they never had MASS slavery.

  • Amber

    Loved the article, hope things are going good with the seventh-day adventist.

  • The Apple Jack Prophet


  • Gary

    This article is one of historical scholarship (and not very good at that!) and nothing to do with the false opposition of science v. religion. . .

  • rachel magowan

    As an anthropology and egyptology student I have deciphered egyptian hieroglyphics. The pyramids were in fact built by egyptian workers. They were highly paid and treated very well. Pyramid work was considered by many to be a tradition followed by next generations. Often pyramid foremen would offer bonuses for speedy work and excellent craftsmanship and groups of workers would hold friendly competitions over who could complete more by the end of the work day and receive extra pay or gifts upon winning. There is EVIDENCE of such things. There is NO ANTHROPOLOGICAL EVIDENCE supporting jewish slavery or even the presence of Jewish or anyone other than egyptians working on pyramids. The argument about what we consider to be a jewish person noe or then is semantics and irrelevant. For thousands of years egypt primarily kept its boarders closed to outsiders. They painted the faces of bordering rivals (the nubians and thr greeks for example) on the bottom of their shoes as a sign of superiority. The idea that they would allow foreigners to work on something so sacred is preposterous. Also it was rare for egyptians to have slaves in general. Some criminals were used for undesirable work until their debt or sentence was paid but even that was uncommon. The bible wS written by group of regular men as a TOOL for control and a way to govern people. During a time of famine, drought, crime and ignorance the need for conformity was crucial to civilization. The promise of paradise was incredibly enticing when the world around you is plagued with disease and starvation. Being told that if you follow the rules of an invisible, all powerful, omniscient being will guarantee you a place in heaven, you’re going to choose to believe in the fairytale. And the notion of burning in hell for all eternity if you dont follow the “teachings of christ” is a great deterrent for those that would appose the bible. Fear is a powerful tool. The bible and christianity is a myth. It’s just a fairytale that has caused pain and suffering and war.

    • Bill Smith

      The Bible was written by 40 different people over the course of 1500 years. One theme: redemption. Jesus said the meek will inherit the earth. Christians are to submit to authorities. Greed and selfishness are bad. This doesn’t sound like the typical power grabbing stuff of humanity. And furthermore, where are you going when you die? You don’t know at all do you? Doesn’t that bother you?

      • Uncivilized

        If greed and selfishness are bad, then why are so many Christians Capitalists?

        • Walter Scott Dempsey

          Because they are full of sin, just like everyone else on Earth.

          • Truth91

            Every man will fall short of gods glory.
            You must once been a fool in order to call yourself wise

          • rechill

            Capitalism isn’t a sin. WTF is wrong with you people?

          • Bob_Barnes

            What did Jesus say about a rich man’s chance of getting into heaven?

          • zen

            Even a poor person has little chance according to Jesus, only the humble. He just mentioned that it is especially difficult if you are obsessed with money.

        • IRS Medic

          Because Christian-based free market capitalism, a system of voluntary exchange for mutual benefit, where people feel secure enough to invest into large capital-intensive projects is not bad, but good. It is other rigidly dogmatic systems, such a communism, socialism, facism, statism, environmentalism, whatever the name, well, the tyranny is the same — those are the systems that are nothing but greed and selfishness. Yes, they are sure good at making you think they are taking the high road, nevermind the few million murdered souls they left in their wake.

        • Truth91

          Why do people always point out one person to represent a whole body of Christ. Would you sacrifice your life for theirs? Cuz thats exactly what your doing… When you let a person who is afflicted with god ….. Keep you from knowing god all together. Wisdom and understanding are gifts of life.

        • rechill

          Because it’s better than the envy and theft of Marxism. You know who gives the most of their money away charitably? Christian Capitalists. Know why? Because the three main tenets of Christianity are Faith, Hope and Charity.

        • Lynn

          I was reading that one of the problems that Marxists had with the Jews is their capitalism. He did not object to their religion and thought the government could live with religion in the abstract but not capitalism as it is against collectivism. Anyway if you were honest you would think that in looking at the USA it is a mixture of capitalism and socialism as we have many many social programs. The Jews also were admonished for not doing good to strangers, widows, orphans and their neighbors. I think if you believe something or at least not believe in something you should put some thought into it and explore. You might be surprised.

      • Robert Jory

        I was nothing before I was born and I will return to nothing when I die. The matter that makes up my body will return to the natural world that I have been borrowing it from and will become something new. In a way I will continue on but my mind will be forever lost. To me this is beautiful, not frightening.

        • Truth91

          Energy can not be destroyed only transferred
          …..Science and god .. Zz

          • Damian Poirier

            But information is easily destroyed and unrecoverable. Death is the ultimate in unrecoverablity of information.

          • The akashic record is like an immense photographic film, registering all the desires and earth experiences of our planet. It is the reservoir of all human knowledge and in a sense, it is pure consciousness.

          • Damian Poirier

            Don’t say what it IS until you establish that it actually exists.

          • It is established. All thought emanates from the Akashic record.

          • Damian Poirier

            In your dreams.

          • The Akashic record represents the whole of collective consciousness. I know these concepts are hard for your fragile mind to comprehend, but please do try to keep up.

          • Justin Adams

            You should probably look up terms like “The Heat Death of the Universe” or “black hole”, to update your knowledge here. Not to mention read Apocalypse/Revelations to get updated on what God says about destruction of energy.

          • John M Stoecker

            which god with well over 3000 of them its tough to choose..imagine you have been genuflecting to the wrong one!!!

          • There is only one god and it has over ten thousand names.

          • John M Stoecker

            Canot be so.the christian god no way resembles the Jewish ghost and neither of them resemble the Mormon god..

          • It does not matter, God is a force that hols all things together. A tonic vibration. A universal Frequency. One face with many different masks.

          • John M Stoecker

            Well that’s this ghost you speak of.which of the hundreds of religious doctrines are true word of thor.Zeus. because they all cannot be a true word of a sky daddy

          • I never said anything about a ghost. Keep up. Sky daddy? Damn you people are ignorant. Where have I said anything of the sort? You just regurgitate what you have heard or read someone else say.

          • John M Stoecker

            Does Father son and holy ghost mean anything to you???ignorance lies with you..

          • Actually, no it doesn’t. I know of such things but for me it has no meaning. I do not see a primal force as an anthropomorphic being that has the attributes of man, a god or a combination of both. All Gods are one, regardless of how they are perceived or worshiped by the ignorant. You see, you are unaware of many things and that makes you ignorant. You have no idea what is and what isn’t. I on the other hand have a grasp of things beyond your tiny mind.

          • John M Stoecker
          • Who said anything about faith? You keep adding words that aren’t there that I haven’t said. You are a queer individual.

          • John M Stoecker

            Your the tool making extraordinary claims with zero evidence. So that is either faith or a mental defect. With your 3rd grade vocabulary I’m aiming for cognitive I’ll wait for your evidence. .

          • Use all the memes you want. I do not believe in ghosts, mythology, myths, nonsense, you pathetic putz. 3rd grade vocabulary? I have to dumb myself down just to get across to you. These are your words, “your stance is bout as revelation to you and you only would be a reason to commit yourself to a mental institution. .so show me.” What does that even mean? You attack my vocabulary because that is all you have. You can barely make a coherent statement, much less use grammatically correct English.

          • John M Stoecker

            What sort of tool am I dealing speak as a 3rd grader then project your ignorance with name calling and some how it’s me??

          • You called me a tool to begin with, troll. You have fecal contamination of the cranial cavity and your grammar is on par with that of a person who failed miserably at basic English writing rules. You over use punctuation, you commit to run on sentences, you have no grasp of the simplest of writing concepts, etc. etc.

          • John M Stoecker

            your name calling is of a 3rd grader whom wears a dunce cap in the corner of the class room of mis yet again ill ask for your evidence

          • I don’t practice a religion. You don’t know anything about me or my beliefs. You just know how to insult people and try to act superior, when you aren’t in any way superior to anyone.

          • John M Stoecker

            cry me a stated you know of a god.and mysterious powers.if that isnt a faith based claim you need a dictionary

          • I never once said anything about mysterious powers and I never said anything about knowing A GOD. Try to keep up, princess.

          • John M Stoecker

            You are such a tool.your rambles would make hen hamm blush..go back to your star war binge watching and let the adults speak.

          • You are a basic troll.

          • John M Stoecker

            Sorry bout auto correct. .I’ll still be waiting for your evidence. .please use your masters degree in bullshite to enlighten me..

          • The fact that you are typing to me is evidence enough. Don’t blame auto-correct for your lack of intelligence. It’s not just how you spell the words you use, it is how you butcher the English language.

          • John M Stoecker

            grammar police,,great,,,still waiting for your evidence of your extraordinary claims..feel free to use crayons..

          • John M Stoecker

            So show some evidence ..your stance is bout as revelation to you and you only would be a reason to commit yourself to a mental institution. .so show me

          • Do you believe in gravity or magnetism? Gravity and magnetism are forces. Each exists whether or not you believe in them.

          • John M Stoecker

            That is a false equilvancy.both are proven facts .where as your position lacks greatly. .so yet again your the one making extraordinary claims. Show the evidence. .butt of course you cannot and there lies the problem. .but I’ll wait for your next non sequitur

          • You need to go back to school. Your attempt at seeming intelligent is not working. Just look at the shear amount of grammatical errors you’ve made. You should be ashamed of yourself.

          • John M Stoecker

            grammer police..great

          • You called me names to begin with, person. You also called me out on my grammar, by trying to insult my vocabulary. Insulting me doesn’t constitute an argument, imbecile. I am blocking you now.

          • John LaRoche

            god is plural let us. god is one in thought process.
            Who are the “us” in “let us go down” of Gen.11:7?

            Answered by Steven · 21 November 2009 · 6 Comments

            See Who is God speaking to in Genesis 1:26? That answer deals more simply with these two verses:

            Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man
            in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the
            fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock
            and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the

            Gen 3:22
            Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in
            knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of
            the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”

            Those two verses are almost unique in the Bible in that God talks to
            “us” and about “us”, but it is not clear who the “us” is. There is no
            doubt that the word is in fact plural, since it is used again in Gen.11:

            Gen 11:4
            Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with
            its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be
            dispersed over the face of the whole earth.”

            Gen 11:7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.”

            Then after this, after the mixing of languages, the “let us” language
            of God never occurs again in the Old Testament. This has led some to
            speculate that the original record Gen.1-11
            was written in a language other than Hebrew and the “let us” is a
            grammatical equivalent of “let me” or “I” in the original text, but this
            does not greatly help answer our question. As it stands, in Hebrew,
            “let us” and “like one of us” are clearly plural.

          • All gods are just one God with many names. God is different to all people of all faiths. All of the gods are just different attributes of the one God irrespective of religious affiliation. What the Bible says is not definitive nor authoritative. That is unless your faith is blind enough to believe words invented and written by men came directly from gods. All books, manuscripts and so on merely pieces and fragments, some of which, are full of mostly fantasy, half truths and whole lies. There are a many doctrines of peace and love, from a holy man, men or God-man, men who spread words of wisdom and kindness and who teaches other the virtues of humbleness, charity and goodwill. Jesus is not the first or the only. The Bible is stories pieced together from many different sources and is no more authoritative than The Cat in the Hat. It is wonderful to read, but it does not hold the answers. No book does. God is not in a book. God dwells within. You can only truly know God by searching for God within, not out in the world, from the words or lips of other men or any fancy buildings.

          • Damian Poirier

            Asserting a thing does not make it so.

          • That is your opinion. Opinions are not fact. Facts are stubborn things. Opinions are fleeting. Have a nice day.

          • Brigadon

            Black hole (singluarity theory) is in the process of being torn down and reintegrated, as a lot of the gravitational evidence has proven inconsistent under better instrumentation. Check up on ‘Dark matter universe’ for a contrasting theory with exactly the same gravitational evidence as black holes.

            The problem is, in a dark matter universe, even ‘the big bang’ and ‘heat death of the universe’ theories begin to lose the shiny of evidence. ‘God separated the light from the darkness’ makes just as much sense as ‘it just happened.’, and ‘heat death’ especially has lost enormous veracity due to the discovery that our velocity is accelerating, rather than decelerating (as would happen in a big bang scenario)

          • John LaRoche

            think like me

        • Jacob Harding

          That is horribly depressing.

          • Robert Jory

            Nothing depressing about it at all. Knowing that the atoms that make up my body will continue on to create something new is amazing. Understanding that long before those same atoms made up my body they were created in the center of a star that then exploded, releasing those atoms into the universe is simply beautiful. Appreciating this one life I have to live and creating my own purpose for it that has meaning to me and the ones I love.

            If reality is too depressing for you perhaps a fairy tale is more to your liking. Try one of the thousand religions believed today.

          • zen

            Atoms don’t create anything. No one know how creation happens, but imagining it is no better than believing something mysterious did it. You’re doing the same kind of belief without even noting it.

          • Robert Jory

            Not really when we have evidence the things I stated actually happen. You seem to have a hard time understanding what I said. I didn’t mean to say that the atoms themselves are sentient and go around creating things. I meant that the atoms that make up my body will not be destroyed, but simply become something else. I’m sorry if that was confusing you.

          • Lynn

            All that time for mindlessness to churn out life for billions upon billions upon trillions upon gazillions of years on and on until suddenly Poof! a thought and another and another until the final thought “A mind is a wonderful thing to lose!” Wow that is amazing!

        • Lynn

          Maybe you’ve lost your mind already.

          • Robert Jory

            You assume I value your opinion in some way.
            I don’t.

          • Lynn

            well if you losing your mind is a beautiful thing then well i wouldn’t expect you to value mine…LOL

          • Robert Jory

            You also assume I’m losing my mind.
            I am not.

          • Lynn

            Um you will lose your mind and never recover it along with your body according to your belief (am I making a wrong assumption?) It seems to me science is forbidden from exploring that idea since it is not totally explained by the physical world. That is something I don’t understand about people who love science yet get pleasure out of the “thought” that it is as fragile as our bodies a few short years of life and then gone forever. What makes you so sure there is not a mind of Creation. How does a mind and thought proclude that idea.

          • Robert Jory

            We don’t understand everything about consciousness but we do know it originates in the brain. If someone’s brain is damaged that person can lose consciousness, slip into a coma, lose motor skills, lose memories, or even have their personality changed. But for some reason people think if the brain completely dies that they will some how retain all their memories and personality as something incorporeal like a soul or spirit, that is not perceivable empirically mind you, that goes on to a happy heaven place where you will see other dead family members that also some how retained their memories of you and their personality.

            How do people wrap their logic around that stupidity?

            As for me, yes, I will lose my mind and everything when I die. That doesn’t scare me into believing something foolish. My consciousness will cease to exist, but everything that makes up my body, all the atoms, will break apart and combine to make something different that is no longer me but was once me. As bacteria breaks down my body I will be used as food for insects and plants, becoming a part of them. Some of my atoms will probably float around in the air being breathed in by other people.

            But this is only the physical me. Who I really am will live on with the people still alive as memories. I’m not famous so I won’t be written about and taught to future generations but honestly I don’t care if those future people know me. I have no emotional connection to people not born yet. All that matters to me is my short life on this planet and the people I care about that are in my short life.

          • Lynn

            You live on in other memories for perhaps a few generations and most likely you will be thought of no more or known by more then a few life cycles. Even if you get written up in a history book or a street name after you, you will become an abstraction. For people to long for more is in fact normal to seek to ponder to know to love all things that beg for more time. Even longing for beauty or longing to know beyond what your physical body is capable of experiencing is normal. To end as if that is enough does not sound logical when we know from what we don’t know that there is a whole expansive universe and beyond waiting to discover. All these thoughts go through a mind yet to think that there is a mind of creation is stupid? That is illogical and belies reason. Perhaps you say you do not know God and is that to say there is no God? Perhaps you say that there is creation yet because you don’t know a Creator there is none? To long to know someone long after they are dead is not stupid it is beautiful and it is reasonable. It is love, honor, respect and joy. It is good not evil or stupid.

          • Robert Jory

            What do you even mean by “a mind of creation”? You mean a god? Yes, a god is illogical since there is no reason to believe in one. As of yet, there has been zero scientific studies that ended with the conclusion that god did it. Everything follows the physical laws of the universe. Everything that happens has a natural explanation for it. Where in there to you fit a physics defying entity that created everything just for you because you’re the most important thing in the universe?

            I never said there was creation. There are natural processes that form things out of what is available. Now you might ask where did the stuff come from in the first place. We don’t know for sure. That means I can’t say exactly where it came from but it also means you can’t say it was god. Especially since you can’t even prove that god is real, let alone that he is your version of god, I’m assuming the Christian god(one of 30,000 Christian denominations), and that he is the cause of the universe. You can’t prove god anymore than I could prove there is a giant invisible unicorn that farted the universe into existence.

            To long for someone that died is not stupid, it is natural. But when you start to believe you’ll some day see them again in a distance magical land of happiness then it does become stupid.

            But in the end this is pointless. As Mark Twain said “It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.”

          • Lynn

            Everything follows the physical laws of the universe. Wow you know a lot about everything even the universe assuming when you say universe you mean everything. And when happiness becomes the thought of fools and ending becomes the answer to everything then well in your words this is pointless. Or do you claim to know the point?

          • Robert Jory

            The point to what? Life? The point of life is whatever you want it to be. People create their own purpose in life. It’s not handed down to us from a divine supernatural dictator.

          • Lynn

            Right…mindless life churned and churned until it created life with the ability to create and live with purpose…then back to mindlessness and death. Maybe one day you will see how illogical that is.

          • Robert Jory

            Just because you can’t wrap your brain around it doesn’t make it illogical. That’s simply an argument from incredulity.

          • Lynn

            That is where you come from, incredulity, so why not I? Perhaps the mind is but a blip in life, a minor short lived era of evolution better left behind as mindlessness churns on and on without beginning without end without awareness without I am.

          • Robert Jory

            But people don’t really believe in heaven and hell. If Christians really thought they would go to heaven when they die they wouldn’t be thanking god after surviving a natural disaster or accident. They’d be upset that they didn’t get to move on to their paradise with their god in complete bliss instead of being stuck here on Earth with all these evil homosexuals and atheists and Muslims.

          • Lynn

            So you think Christians should be suicidal? and it is not I that calls the death of body and mind beautiful! I am also sick and tired of you and those who think like you saying that Christians say homosexuals are evil. Why should we be afraid to question a sexual behavior that treats a part of the body as good for sexual expression when in fact it is used to rid the body of waste. Why do you want to silence good sense? As for atheists and Muslims again when did it become evil to questions beliefs? Isn’t that what you are doing by rejecting Christianity as is your right? Or is it your right to criticize Christians but not my right to criticize you, or gays or atheists or Muslims or Christians? Did you think your attacks would last forever and you would be immune to the tables turned and you having to answer to questions on your beliefs? No of course not but it appears strange to me that you counter my assertion that there is an existence of the mind of creation in the world and of course your answer to that possibility is accusations telling me who and what I think is evil. Do I have the power to send anyone to hell? No I do not. Again you side always wants silence of those who disagree with you. What does that say about you?

          • Robert Jory

            Not suicidal since most think you’ll go to hell if you commit suicide. But you’d think they’d be happy to die since heaven is supposed to be untold glory with their god. Yet, every time they get saved they praise god for saving them, in essence, denying them that supreme bliss in heaven.

            Not all Christians think homosexuals are evil, but most think homosexuality is wrong. So it’s just the buttsex you are against? Do you dislike straight couple that practice anal as well? It’s not only done by gay people after all. Vaginal sex is normal and yet the vagina is normally used as a waste dispenser just like the rectum. Are you against straight vaginal sex?

            You are free to criticize me all you want. Just don’t make laws that deny us public office, which several states have. Don’t create laws that allow discrimination against people who aren’t Christian, which a few states are trying to do. And for fuck’s sake stop trying to put biblical nonsense into science classrooms.

            Of course you don’t have the power to send people to heaven or hell, those places don’t exist. But you worship a god who would send me to that lake of fire just because I don’t bow down to him. If some imaginary god wants to torture me for eternity I don’t expect his followers to treat me much better.

          • Lynn

            There is nothing wrong with loving life and Christians thank God for much more than being saved from a horrible death. What is your point? You think they should rush to death.
            A vagina is the same as a rectum…
            The vagina is a self cleaning organ that prepares a woman’s body to accept a fertilized egg so that a child can grow in a safe environment. If a woman does not become pregnant her body cleans itself to prepare for another cycle. I can’t even imagine where you learned that a woman’s vagina is the same as a rectum. Sigh.
            You will have to link to articles about you being denied something because you aren’t Christian. I can’t respond until you do. Links please.
            You are claiming that Christians worship God because he sends people into a lake of fire you included and enjoys the idea of it? Huh? Most Christians don’t even think they deserve to be in the company of God as they will be the first to tell you they are flawed. Who put this nonsense into your head?
            I would not get any pleasure from sending you or seeing you sent to an eternal lake of fire.
            As far as science class I would just hope that you learn the difference between a vagina and a rectum for starts.

          • tg p

            But what about a penis? That’s totally used to rid the body of waste.

          • John M Stoecker
          • Steven McMahon

            Anybody ever heard of solopsism? The only thing anyone can be absolutely certain of is there own present awareness. Beyond that, it’s the mystery…To quote Annie Dillard quoting a neighbor of hers, “seems like we just get set down here and don’t nobody know why.” But, with just a little bit of pondering, anyone can come to see that our whole existence is 100 % a reproduction, in our brains, of incoming stimulus. No one has ever seen the so-called real world, out there; even ‘out there’ is really ‘in-here’, all our ideas, beliefs, thoughts…We see with the very back part of our brain. Does anyone think there is any actual light getting back there? What we see is a reproduction in the back of the brain, seen by…??? whatever it is that is conscious, the thing we think of as “I”, or “me”. It’s a virtual world. Spirituality ends up being the same as philosophy–humans are all philosophers, by necessity, because really, none of us really KNOWS FOR SURE, what in Sam Hill we’re doin’ here.

          • tg p

            Don’t forget that the penis is used to dispose of waste.

          • camsquirrel

            Simple solution, “guest”. Show us some evidence of your godthing. Actual evidence, not things you personally find hard to explain in any other way, not “how else did everything get here”, actual evidence. I’m sure you’ve got tons of it.

          • John Stoltz

            There’s about as much “actual evidence” for God’s non-existence as there is for God’s existence.

          • stevepidge

            That’s the way he likes it, an environment that promotes true free will.

          • susan

            It’s not really free will if you’re going to be tortured forever in hell unless you do “his” will.

          • stevepidge

            Well, to be frank I’m a heathen of the old gods. Asatruar to be exact, I don’t have a dog in this middle eastern fight. But last time I checked the Christian god doesn’t seem bothered with such nuances. Regardless, lack of compassion does not nullify existence .

          • John M Stoecker

            can you show 1 piece of evidence for 1 of the 3000 or so gods

          • John Stoltz

            1 Cor. 15, most scholars, including non-believers accept this as one of the earliest and most historically reliable documents in the NT and the only answer that makes sense to bridge so many gaps (such as Jews leaving their family faith and worshiping a man, or the sudden rise of Christianity after so much brutal persecution of its biggest early advocates) is a bodily resurrection. No other explanation adequately addresses just about everyone agrees happened in that time in that area.

            Besides that, creation itself is all the evidence one really needs, since there’s no such thing as “nothing” everything must come from something.

          • John M Stoecker

            The category “dying-and-rising-god” was debated throughout the 20th century, most modern scholars questioning its ubiquity in the world’s mythologies.[10] By the end of the 20th century the overall scholarly consensus had emerged against the category, given its limited applicability outside of Ancient Near Eastern religions and derived traditions.[10] Tryggve Mettinger (who supports the category) states that there is a scholarly consensus that the category is inappropriate from a historical perspective.[15] Kurt Rudolph in 1986 argued that the oft-made connection between the mystery religions and the idea of dying and rising divinities is defective.

          • John M Stoecker

            Due to quantum uncertainty, energy fluctuations such as an electron and its anti-particle, a positron, can arise spontaneously out of vacuum space, but must disappear rapidly. The lower the energy of the bubble, the longer it can exist. A gravitational field has negative energy. Matter has positive energy. The two values cancel out provided the universe is completely flat. In that case, the universe has zero energy and can theoretically last forever

          • stevepidge

            Evidence would remove your free will. It is about choice. If God reveals himself you have no choice. Be careful what you ask for.

          • Jennifer Dunn

            Well that’s not loving. Hiding yourself and making someone you’re supposed to care about just have faith you exist is pretty mean.

          • stevepidge

            Do you like free will or not.

          • susan

            How would it remove my free will? Even if I knew god existed I could still choose not to worship him. We have laws and punishment for breaking the laws but plenty of people still do. Jails are full of them.

          • stevepidge

            you could not deny his existence.

          • susan

            But I could still choose not to worship or obey him. I would still have free will.

          • stevepidge

            How could you choose to if an all powerful god revealed himself and said not worshipping me will send you to everlasting damnation? I guess you could, but not for long I imagine.

          • susan

            IF there is free will, I could choose disobedience to my own detriment, but I would still have that choice, much as criminals know that they will go to jail for committing a crime but they do so anyways. Defiant children choose to disobey their parents even when they know there are consequences.

          • bad bad man

            People deny reality all the time.

          • stevepidge

            Denial is a function of reality, it does not supersede it 🙂

          • stevepidge

            It’s not the same thing, the acknowledged existed of a supreme being would be compulsion to worship him. It’s presence alone would literally void your freewill as your will would be secondary to his manifest. Such beings would be above conscious thought and when manifest our will would be his. Think of a hive mind, that controls all of creation. I’m not particularly fond of such beings existing, but make no mistake, should such a being make its presence known what you consider “you” would be his to do with as he pleases. That is if said being is omnipotent and omnipresent.

          • susan

            Then that is not free will, it is total control.

          • bad bad man

            It always makes me wonder why athletes don’t thank god for losing …

          • stevepidge


          • Steven McMahon

            The former nonsense I just read only proves that you can put words together into sentences that sound like they’re really saying something, whereas they’re so ludicrous, it boggles the penis, (also an organ of excretion). This religious inanity is the typical rehashed garbage that someone got taught, told was true, and then parrots that same silliness as if it had any actual, use-able information…religion sucks the life, heart, and intelligence out of spirituality. Has anyone even read a book on, oh, I dunno, say…quantum physics? Science? Comparative religion? Something other than the bible, or any other book that claims to be the absolute truth, and you can believe that because that same book tells you it’s true? Do you think if you’d been born in Iraq, or Iran, you wouldn’t believe the Koran? Or in India, some form of Hinduism? Come on guys.

          • Silviu

            A likely excuse.

          • stevepidge

            Not if YOU are God along with everything else.

          • Jennifer Dunn

            You are aware that Heterosexuals have anal sex too right? There’s tons of porn with it.

          • susan

            Why is it your business what anyone else does with their body, and that is certainly not the only way for gays to have sex. Why does your god create people that are gay and then punish them for being what he created? There is NO hell in the bible but your god has ordered and encouraged rape, murder, slavery, war and nearly every atrocity imaginable. That is reason enough for me not to worship him, if he even existed, which he clearly does not.

          • tg p

            Um. . . the penis is used to rid the body of waste. Do you think that also using it for sexual expression is “good sense” you should question?

          • Guest

            “evil homosexuals” eh. Well so is wearing clothing made out of 2 different kinds of thread, eating shellfish, cutting of hair, ETC..

          • Jedi Senshi

            The above is meant for Guest not Robert Joy. (sometimes this comment system sucks)

          • Robert Jory

            I hope you understand that I was saying that from the perspective of Christians and not saying that I believe it myself.

          • stevepidge

            NO, it is nihilistic and defeats the purpose of developing intellect in the first place.

          • susan

            That is simply not true. The ONLY reason for developing intellect is if there is a god. That is beyond ridiculous.

          • stevepidge

            That’s kinda what I was saying..

          • Dznutz

            Hey I know there is no proof. I am not religious. However, you are preaching your non belief to everyone and demonizing people who want to have their own ideas. Because it gets them through life. You ARE preaching just like religious fanatics. You are who you hate. Oh btw, not believing in any god is still a belief. You still call yourself an atheist meaning you associate yourself with a particular belief. Hey this is a criticism forum?

          • Robert Jory

            The big difference is I don’t attempt to create laws to discriminate against religious people. I don’t try to take away their right to believe in stupid shit. I don’t prevent them from praying in public or worshiping in their church or home. I don’t hurt people because they believe in something different.

            Is atheism a belief system? Maybe. But is not believing in bigfoot also a belief system? The only reason we have the label atheist is because so many people are believers. I could just as easily call myself a nonbeliever and leave it at that. Is nonbeliever a belief system? Being an atheist simply means I am not convinced there are gods. Of course with zero evidence it should be hard to convince anyone, but then you look at the billions who believe in different religions. It’s crazy.

          • stevepidge

            We do NOT know it originates in the brain that is a lie.

          • Robert Jory

            Explain why manipulating the brain causes changes in consciousness? Why damage to the brain can make you lose consciousness, lose personality traits, lose memories? No other part of the body has this effect on consciousness. Are you suggesting is starts somewhere else and then moves to the brain? If so, I’d love to see even a shred of empirical evidence supporting your idea.

          • stevepidge

            You mean like how damaging a television severs the signal? Personality traits have NOTHING to do with the true self, personality traits are merely physical manifestations of environment. The Self can only guide the body in accordance with the laws of the material realm. Damage interrupts the connection to the body prohibiting or making difficult certain actions, no different than an amputee would experience difficulty playing the piano. The brain is merely the interface . Oh and memory loss is always globally. you can’t erase a specific memory, damage disturbs all memory. However, there are many many conscious entities within our body acting in symbiosis. EVERY cell and organism possesses volition.

          • Robert Jory

            So you think consciousness is like a signal being sent to a TV? From where? Aliens? God? Please don’t be offended while I laugh.

            Oh, and erasing just bad memories might be a thing soon.

          • bad bad man

            I cherish all my memories. The ones that make me smile are just as valuable as the ones that don’t.

          • WeDeserveConsiderationToo

            Brain damage resulting in memory loss is not always lost in entirety. My father had a car accident when I was a child and because of brain damage he no longer remembered how to spell or write or hold a pencil. He had to relearn al of those things but he remembered every thing else. Fugue Amnesia states are different, they are global.

        • Stefaan Dekien

          You must have been something before you were born (as out of nothing cannot resort anything),so it means you will still be something after you die…

          • Robert Jory

            The material that makes up my body was something before. But it is no longer that other thing. Same as my body will no longer be me when it breaks down and is returned to nature.

        • Seth Manning

          How is ceasing to exist beautiful?

          • Robert Jory

            What was once me will become something new. Kind of like being an organ donor except everything in my body will actually become something different. And though my consciousness will no longer be there the memories of my life will live on in others.

            Do you think going to heaven is beautiful? How could going to eternal bliss be beautiful when you know there are others who go to hell and are tortured for eternity? It’s like going to a party but knowing there are people in the basement being waterboarded while you enjoy yourself. Would you still be having fun?

          • Kathleen Guerrero

            That is why God is giving us grace until He returns again. The world has God all wrong. He is everything good and he loves us beyond understanding. His word and the world we live in are proof of his existence. We all actually deserve to die because of our sin but he loves us so much he is prolonging his return so that as many can be saved as possible. You know, what you believe also takes faith in something you cannot see. At least if what I believe is wrong I will turn into something else. If you are wrong you wil be in eternal hell. I’ll take my chances in putting my faith in Christ.

          • Robert Jory

            If you’ve read the bible you’ll know the Christian god is not a loving character. His solution to the world being full of evil people was to drown them all. Not force them all to be good, not simply make them vanish. No, he had to drown them along with the majority of other animal and plant life. This is a child’s solution to a problem, not an all knowing loving god.

          • Kathleen Guerrero

            Sounds to me like you are the one who hasn’t read the Bible.

          • Justin Adams

            How is it horrifying? Why do you feel the need to apply subjective descriptions of emotion to objective states of existence?

            A fire burns, you witness destruction, that destruction is beautiful. A child is born, grows old, dies. That process is beautiful. Why mourne for the most natural of cycles? How can we know joy if not for pain? How can we know beauty if not for ugliness? Death is what makes life have meaning. But meaning is ephemeral and subjective. If there was nothing sentient to witness the universe’s infinite complexity it would still be infinitely complex. You needn’t pat the universe on the head and tell it good job for it to be the universe. Just for you to appreciate it is such.

            Alternatively, Christianity tells us that but a splinter of all the men and women ever born are worthy of entering paradise. All the others are doomed to torment. What joy is there in that? Why must others suffer for your paradise to have value?

          • Silviu

            Fuck your god and fuck you.

          • Justin Adams

            I am an atheist. I thought that would be clear by the statement you just thread-necromanced.

          • The answer to your question will be answered the moment you realize how brutal and horrible life really is and how death is the only escape. Try to live life as well as you can and die. That is what is going to happen. And if you live long enough, you will eventually want to die. Then you’ll see the beauty of it.

        • Brad Suckme Beach

          “All of those moments will be lost in time, like tears, in the rain.”

          And it’s not beautiful when you lose information that can be valuable. And some information can only be parlayed first hand and not on paper or binary.

        • Logan

          Actually, if you choose to believe the truth and accept what people are trying to tell you, instead of listening to what your mommy, Daddy, family, and friends drilled into you as a child just becuase they wanted you to believe what they believe, you’ll see that you do actually go on… to Heaven or hell. Hell is the ultimately where you end up, unless you believe that Jesus did in fact die for you and all those you love, than you shall have eternal life.

          • Robert Jory

            you’ll see that you do actually go on… to Heaven or hell.

            Nonsense. Unless you have evidence to support your claim?

          • Logan

            I do have proof. The Bible. To be honest, there’s no need to quote anything, because really almost anywhere in the Bible, you’ll see this topic. So if YOU want to research your own claims, crack it open for once.

          • Robert Jory

            The bible is a claim, not proof. Someone wrote in the bible “this exists” and you believe it. Why?

          • Logan

            There is not only biblical evidence, but also historical evidence that proves what the Bible says actually happened.

          • Robert Jory

            Biblical evidence proves the bible? That’s circular. What historical evidence proves the magic in the bible happened?

      • Isaac Euler

        I know this comment is a little old, but I wanted to point something out to you, because I think you’re close to a breakthrough. Tenants such as “submitting to authorities,” and “greed and selfishness are bad” are absolutely things you would want a population to adhere to if you were in control. These are the things that prevent you from flourishing as you wish. Sure greed can be taken too far, but it’s worse to destroy billions of peoples’ ambition to go and get for themselves. The promise of a paradise after death only makes you all more complacent about the wrongs done to all of us by those who mean to control us and all of our descendants.

        • Truth91

          A lot of people are so confused about heaven. God says thy kingdom come On EARTH as it is in heaven. When the bible speaks of the death ,it’s speaking of the spiritual death once must go thu in order to be coincided a son of god

          • susan

            The bible doesn’t actually speak of anything. It is all different men, saying all different and conflicting things, nearly all of which has been proven did not happen by historical and archeological discoveries.

        • Nelson

          I am guessing you mean “tenets” , as in beliefs, not “tenants” , as in people you rent to….

          • Isaac Euler

            Good guess! You are correct.

      • Scott Lane

        While I am sure you have some basis for your claims, I can
        only state that I believe they are either misrepresentations, statements from
        ignorance or out and out lies. The Pentateuch (first 5 books) was written
        between 300 BC and 700 BCE (roughly 400 years) by multiple groups with
        different versions. The NT was canonized in the 3rd and 4th centuries CE
        but the earliest text are dated to around 60 to 70 CE so roughly another 300
        years of writings for a total of about 700 and thousands of people being
        involved, most of whom we have no idea of who they really were other than they
        were not the people for whom the books were named after (in modern times, we
        call this fraud.)

        The only people who claim the bible as infallible are those
        that have no or very limited knowledge of the bible and are usually repeating
        what they heard from another person that they perceived as an expert despite
        that persons obvious lack of biblical education in theology, history and

      • Hunter Rose

        Telling people to ‘submit to authority’ IS ‘power grabbing’ when you’re the ‘authority’.

      • Exia

        when I die I’m going to be rotting six feet under!

      • Charlie Sommers

        One of my favorite writers and Philosophers, Mark Twain, is purported to have said, “I was effectively dead for billions of years before I was born and do not recall it having caused me any difficulties.”

      • TRUEWORDS12

        If only men kind would learn to trust God…..but know 2000 years plus have past and we just don’t learn

        • susan

          Well, in all fairness, this god has been kind of absent for all of the 2000 years and the stories of his existence have all been proven to be lies. There is nothing to actually believe in.

      • hellbindercda

        That is a complete fabrication. The bible was not written by 40 authors and it was not written over 1500 years. I used to say and believe the same things. Then I learned the facts. The Hebrew language was not even if it’s earliest stages for over 500 years after the supposed time of Moses. Most of the old testament t was written or assembled by scribes around 600bce. There are tons of anachronisms and historical errors.

        The book is not about redemption. You can’t be redeemed by a pack of lies and blood sacrifices. Nearly all the bible stories are stolen reworked material from other cultures. Including the new testament.

        The more you do honest study the more the truth comes out and the wheels fall off.

        • susan

          Even Hebrew scholars are now acknowledging that the OT was all fiction and myths, stories and poems. They will tell you that there was NO garden of Eden or talking snake, no Exodus, no Moses or ark. It was all fiction and was never intended to be anything else. Then there’s the NT for which we know that there was no census that Mary & Joseph traveled to, no Herod killing all of the babies and dozens of other impossibilities. It’s all nonsense and it’s ridiculous that any grown adult could believe any of it.

      • Luke 19:27
        “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me.'”

        • Jennifer Dunn

          I see your point and totally agree with it but to be fair, by the morality of the day, killing your enemies in front of you was probably considered sweet or something. Don’t get me started on what was considered romantic back then.

      • Robyn B Holmes

        you clearly have not actually read any of the bible except for verses you are directed to by your clergy , have you?

        jesus said a lot of things… so did mithra , krishna , gilgamesh, zeus and odin….

        ps: most of the new testament has been shown to be fraudulent.
        the old testament is just the jewish religion.
        so be a good goyim and keep following your fake religion.
        mathew 15:27

      • Kai Bråthen
      • Septet

        It sounds like power grabbing when you realize it was made to placate the masses.

      • Justin Adams

        Fear of the unknown is a child’s view. We are meant to set down childish things. No, where I am going when I die is not a question that gives me a moment of doubt or tribulation. What I do while I am here does. What I leave for others after I stop being here does. Every religion on earth is focused on answering the questions of the hereafter and the before. It is not unique to Christianity or Judaism or even the Abrahamic faiths.

        That said, the article said “Well, here comes science to kick religion in the nuts once again: the Jews were never slaves in Egypt!”. This is incredibly wrong on two different fronts.

        1.) The jews in fact really were a slave caste when they were in Egypt (and they were in Egypt), but plenty of other cultures were too. Because what we today think of as slaves is not accurate to what slaves were historically.
        2.) Cultural anthropology is not a fucking science. Science has nothing to say about it. Stop being an idiot. It’s a fucking humanity.

        Did the jews build the pyramids? No. Does that have anything to do with the title of the article, or the general message being stated? No. No it doesn’t.

      • Antonio Beardall

        She talks about the pyramids, you bring in life after death. I am pretty sure you do not know all either. Why do you care if it bothers her or not. I agree with her, it is all a big lie, a fairytale, and I dare you to prove it is not. Show me that Zeus and Horus are fake, with proof, then I will believe you about Jesus.

    • Lynn

      No thank you. I don’t want any kool aid but continue drinking please…and what do you think about being buried alive with the pharaoh to help in the transition to the after life. Oh and the advanced civil civilization I guess didn’t realize you can’t take it with you.

    • Cliven

      Maybe you should check your facts before arguing strawman fallacies. The Jews never claimed to have built the pyramids. Period. They claimed to have been forced to build store-cities. Your entire, fallacious argument is based on a *Hollywood production* made specifically for a populace (1950’s Americans) so ignorant of Egypt that they only knew of the pyramids, thus that image was used. If you want to rail against Hollywood, I say “good for you”, but do not commit libel against a people because you failed to do the relevant/required research into their actual claims.

    • Brigadon

      It would be degrading, to say the least, to have your final home built by forced labor.

      Although there is some evidence that Jewish ‘slaves’ were actually administrators under egyptian domination in Isreal…much as the Romans did thousands of years later.

    • freedomliberty4

      I agree…don’t forget Islam…worse than jews and christians put together

  • hello my name is Charlie. With all due respect, I would like to submit my response to this blog. It concerns me very much when people throw out the ‘400 contradictions in the Bible line.’ I always challenge those people- OK fine. then show me. It’s just a big waste of time because those people are trying to ‘debunk’ innerency of scripture. Bad news- you will never succeed in doing that. Ok so here is my critique:

    Without even reading a few sentences into the article, I see your perspective quite clearly.

    “Christians still cling to the opinion that their Bible is infallible…”

    So instead of the Bible as the measure and standard of truth, you have another measure and standard. Now the 400 contradiction statement is a bold and arrogant statement that needs to be proved itself. Unfortunately you just throws that in there carelessly.

    #1- the author makes statements of ‘fact’ without any citation or data.

    Example..”Further, there is no evidence of any kind that Egypt even used slaves, and certainly no evidence that they enslaved an entire nation.”

    Says who? there needs to be a footnote here or some sort of reference.

    Example: “The same techniques used to track the migration patterns of ancient humans by examining DNA also show that there was absolutely no procreation between ancient Egyptians and ancient Israelites during the time that the story was supposed to have taken place.”

    WHAT!? who is making these statements /are you qualified to say such things?

    #2- The author assumes that the building of pyramids is proof that the Israelite s had been exiled/or that this happened in the same era.

    “Further, there is no evidence of any kind that Egypt even used slaves, and certainly no evidence that they enslaved an entire nation. The workers that built the pyramids are known to be well payed Egyptians.”..

    Ok so you knew these men got paid well? How?how does this prove that Israelites could have never been there at any point in history .

    #3- this is an incredibly weak argument, with its sole purpose to undermine the authority of Scripture.

    You draw your argument to a close with this statement: “In short, this story never happened…”

    So I am supposed to say.. “DUH it all makes sense now.” Thanks for revealing the truth to me. Seems like you know better then thousands of years of other historical information that you omit. Now that you explained this- it’s clear the Bible is just a book full of lies!”

    Now you can see I am being a bit foolish, and I don’t mean to offend you. It is just concerning how you can make sure bold statements from the authority of himself, and not even back it up with anything significant.

    In the Bible there are things that are hard to understand, and hard to accept. But at the end of the day, we probably wont have every single question answered. Even more- It will come down to this: Whose authority do you trust man or God’s? We know what God has to say on a subject because He says it in His Word.

    I want you to know that these issues are secondary to the gospel. The exodus was a type and illustration of the spiritual exodus we all face. We are slaves to sin in a foregn land that will one day fade away. Jesus Christ came to Earth and lived the life we should have lived. He died the death we deserved for breaking God’s law in every form and administration. Yet Christ chose to absorbe God’s wrath and cover us with His blood so God can now look upon Christ’s shed blood which covers our sin. Remember the animal sacrifices? That was a picture of the sacrifice of Christ.

    The Bible commands us to repent and believe the gospel. Jesus did not stay dead, He rose from the dead by the power of the Triune God. Jesus couldnt stay dead because He was God! His Resurrection promises you a new life and ultimately we await the new Jerusalem and restored earth. Believe in Jesus for the forgiveness for your sins and you will have freedom. Freedom from sin and self, and freedom from facing God’s wrath for all eternity because Christ suffered that in our place.

    Don’t get hung up on these things. They are historically accurate, yet have a fuller meaning. Jesus is the greater Moses who stood in our place and made a way for us to enter God’s presence and receive reconciliation with our creator.

    God bless you 🙂

    • admin

      1. My blog post has it’s sources clearly listed at the bottom.
      2. Here is a visual representation of the 400+ bible contradictions
      3. You cannot prove the bible by quoting the bible.

      • Xsquader

        Just because something cannot be currently proven does not mean it didn’t happen or that it is disproved. No current archaeological evidence is not the same as no evidence. This article shows your ignorance as a person because you assume you know the truth because of evidence that hasn’t been found but could still possibly BE found. There is much of the world we have not discovered yet. We have a large group of pyramids said to be bigger than Giza we recently learned about we need to go dig up. Let me re-iterate, just because there is no archaeological proof other than text which can cause skepticism due to bias does NOT mean it did not happen or that proof does not exist somewhere but hasn’t been found yet. Saying the things you say as fact without being able to disprove them makes you just as illogical as Jews, Christians, and Muslims. I am Agnostic by the way in case you attempt to play the religion card.

    • Simply superb reply. Thanks for doing so.!!

    • Pookie Ray

      Even more- It will come down to this: Whose authority do you trust man or God’s? We know what God has to say on a subject because He says it in His Word.

      ^^^ Man has been proven a liar and a fool time after time through out history so you can old imagine how foolish someone would look for believing a liar who wrote a book about these 2 items he found in New York that together explained Mormonism and since he was the only one who could use them he needed a way to spread the word and he just happened to be working for a book publisher. Then there is the Bible, mans words.

      Genesis 2:18–23 tells us that Adam named the animals before Eve was created. So how could Adam have named all the animals in one day?
      So many dinosaurs and not one mentioned in the bible. Noah was 480 years old when God told him to build an Ark and 600 when the flood came and that 40 days and 40 nights of rain was enough to put Mt Ararat which stands at 16,854 feet above sea level under water, not bad for being 600.

      • Well, considering there is no evidence for any god – and which one are you referring to here? – there’s no point in “trusting” the “authority” of an invisible man.

        You’re right “man” has been proven a liar and a fool, time after time, so why on earth would you trust a cobbled-together mess of bronze age stores written by men???

      • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

        an understanding of reality unparalled in human history
        To only name a few.
        human sacrifice
        yeah. Man 1 /god 0

    • Um. Charlie? Before you come on a site like this (where there are loads and loads of educated people – reformed christians and all sorts) USE GOOGLE!!!

      You could have saved yourself a world of humiliation just by searching “biblical contradictions.”

      And no, my friend, that statement was NOT thrown in there carelessly. It’s a fact. If you want to check it out, all you have to do is read your own bible – just Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 and compare them: the contradict each other.

      As to the author making statements of fact, yeah, he did – because the FACTS show exactly what he said: there was no migration and none of that other stuff happened. Archaeology is a great field. You should look it up!

      As for undermining scripture, YUP, that is exactly what’s happening here and exactly what should be happening.

      The bible is a many, many-times translated from three or four language compilation of stuff written by who knows how many HUMANS, and then jumbled together by a bunch of other humans. It isn’t anything other than a mess of stories from 2000 or so years ago.

      Oh.. and your buddy Jesus? Yeah. MYTH. NEVER existed.

      Sorry pal.

      • rwagg

        Jesus is mentioned in multiple non-Christian historical texts. Yes, he existed. Whether he was God is up for debate.

        • Now, see, that’s what I thought, until I looked into it. There are no contemporaneous sources outside of the early Christian community; that is to say, no evidence that didn’t spring from the “original” gospels, which as we know, were written many years after Jesus’ supposed crucifixion…

          • Bill Smith

            Logically speaking, why would a group of people decide to believe in someone who never existed, and suffer death for that person?

          • John Blue

            People suffer death for their beliefs such as hindus, buddist, ancient greeks, romans, celts etc. They all believe in different gods/ prophets even though there is no proof of any of them. Whose to say Christianity is right with all these other contradicting religions to name but a few. People want to believe in something, to have a purpose in life, their is a certain nobility in martyrdom. Logic however is not a word you can associate with religion.

          • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

            So you believe in Mohammad and Allah. I mean why would countless muslims suffer death for that person?

          • Jeffrey Cordero

            May I suggest that you read “Did Jesus Exist” by Bart D. Ehrman, even as a complete atheist he gives incredible evidence of the existence of Jesus. Please read this (and some other supportive evidence) before you continue making such statements bashing Jesus’s existence stating that only Christians believe in such things.

          • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

            Actually, Bart is agnostic, not atheist. smh.

        • Vanglorious

          False.. No historians , that lived at the time of Jesus, ever mentioned him..Jesus is a bad copy of Heru, whos story predates Jesus’ by 3000 years..Jesus was invented by Roman aristocrats

        • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

          Really. Point to one valid, extra biblical account of Jesus.

    • Antonio Vereš

      So, you’re telling me you don’t believe this because it’s not fully explained how it’s done or who did the research, yet you still choose to believe in the bible and the word of god? Am I missing something? ://

    • Sean Lee Walthour

      Horseshit! Rather than provide evidence u claim exists, u just scoff at the writer’s argument. Your bluff was poorly disguised. Tell me, why does the biblical “god” select moses as his prophet, knowing in advance (omniscience )he will try to kill him later? How is this God DEFEATED by enemies with iron chariots (Judges 1:19), why would he put ONLY TWO people on the planet ALONE and tell them to MULTIPLY? You are aware this means God forced INCEST on his creations (genesis 3:20) and why is Satan blamed for EVIL when god CREATED EVERYTHING (which includes evil btw)
      Isaiah 45:7.. and plz explain how a SIX HUNDRED YEAR OLD MAN collected two of every creature on earth in less than a week and put them in a ship FOUR HUNDRED N FIFTY FEET SMALL. .

      Oh one last thing to fry your noodles…

      In the beginning, god CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH,….

      question: WHERE was HE, BEFOREHAND ???

    • Robert Jory

      Of course Christians can counter all the contradictions, they simply make up whatever meaning they want the scriptures to mean for their own purpose. If taking it literally fits their belief then the scripture is to be taken literally. If it fits better as a metaphor then they tell you it’s supposed to be a metaphor. Funny how no matter what purpose you want the bible to be you can always find a way to make it fit.

    • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

      okay. let’s play the 100% game. If the bible is the inerrant word of god then EVERYTHING should be true. If 1 thing isn’t, then it’s discounted for god can’t be 99% correct.
      Where in history is the slaughter of the innocents mentioned besides the bible?

    • pampes

      Charlie you are perhaps very young, or just very uneducated. Either way, you must recognize your limitation. Who says? Documents from ancient times as well as archaeological finds. I am a historian and can say without question the Hebrews did not even exist at the time of the pyramids. Furthermore, the Bible is inaccurate in many areas. You ask people to show you how when you would never believe it anyway. You believe in your mythology as the Egyptians did theirs. Nobody can take that from you unless you are willing to learn something else. But YOU have to do that, nobody can do it for you.
      I will, however, give you one example of inaccuracy:
      When and where was Jesus born? Bethlehem? In a stable? During the reign of Herod the Great? If you believe all those things, you are believing contradictory statements. The two gospels that mention his birth disagree, one says a house in Bethlehem, one says a stable outside Bethlehem; one says during Herod’s reign,one says during a census which was a decade later; one says Jesus fled to Egypt after birth, one says he returned to Nazareth.

    • kerston

      The bible was not meant to be taken literally. Sources. READ IT. The gospels don’t even match up and especially John makes it very clear it is not to be taken literally. I am not telling you to throw the baby out with the bath water. There all in all a great message of truth in how humanity should GROW (not be born again) to be more human like the message that is the story of Christ. To take the bible literally is not only ignorant it is dangerous when done by some people and many if not most aren’t even literate enough to read it properly. If they were they would not take it “literally”. It is OBVIOUS it wasn’t meant to be. Read carefully and you will see. If it was meant to be taken literally and was God inspired do you really think there would be so many contradictions in Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John ?

  • Sev

    No offence “admin” but you say… “You cannot prove the bible by quoting the bible”… but aren’t Atheists continually just quoting what scientists say, in which case can’t the same be said of you, that you cannot prove what scientists say by merely quoting them? Or do you, as an Atheist, consider scientific findings/theories to be unquestionable gospel truth, so to speak?

    • admin

      You obviously don’t understand how “science” works. Scientists don’t just make shit up – they observe things. They then share their findings with other scientists, who attempt to prove or disprove their findings. There is a chain of evidence and publications that anyone with the inclination can get access to. So, the answer is no – atheists quoting scientists is not the same as christians quoting the bible.

      • Sev

        I’m not a scientist, so please correct me if you believe I’m wrong!

        I understand that an OBSERVATION comes before a hypothesis, and a HYPOTHESIS comes before a theory, and a THEORY is always subject to change, therefore (as I’ve already tried to explain in a previous comment) science is always inconclusive.

        If science is always inconclusive, as it should be, as it is always subject to change pending any further evidence, then wouldn’t you agree that scientific findings/theories are always questionable?

        • admin

          No, scientific findings/theories are not always questionable. At least, not in the way you are insinuating. A more detailed explanation may be revealed, but rarely (if ever) is a working theory thrown out because it’s proven to be false.

          Let’s take gravity as a simple example. The current “theory” of gravity accurately explains the attraction between bodies. A more detailed explanation may be discovered at a later date, but the theory we have today, and all the math behind, will still be correct.

          I don’t know why you’re arguing this point – if we return to christianity as the topic of discussion, there is little (if any) evidence Jesus even existed, outside of the one book. A book written when people through the world was flat. Flat, AND the centre of the universe.

          The Bible was written, then edited, then rewritten, then rewritten, then re-edited, then translated from dead languages, then re-translated, then edited, then rewritten, then given to kings for them to take their favorite parts, then rewritten, then re-rewritten, then translated again, then given to the pope for him to approve, then rewritten, then edited again, the re-re-re-re-rewritten again… all based on stories that were told orally, 30 to 90 years AFTER they happened…to people who didn’t know how to write… so…?

          • Sev

            QUESTION/s re previous comments by “admin” in relation to similarity/criticism about Christians quoting the Bible and Atheists quoting Scientists:

            Is there any Scientist’s book in particular that you and Atheists in general mostly read/quote, or do Atheists constantly change what and who they quote according to new findings/theories?
            If so, isn’t it true that Atheists are also constantly changing what they believe/disbelieve?

            If through the years Atheism has been so inconsistent and changeable, could you clarify exactly what do Atheists believe/disbelieve in 2013?

          • You’re so close Sev, you’ve almost got it!

            It’s true, we are constantly changing what we believe/disbelieve, based on evidence and discovery. It’s called science. Scientists are personally offended when they are proven wrong – it’s an exciting time, because now they have a better understanding of what they had been studying.

            The reason I say you can’t prove the bible by quoting the bible is because it’s circular logic – the bible is true because the bible says so. With science, there is no one book or reference we use – our understanding is based on research, experimentation and overwhelming evidence. Each new discovery is based on some previous discovery. Sometimes our understanding of a certain aspect of the world around us is refined based on some new discovery, but it is almost never completely thrown out.

          • Atheists do not BELIEVE anything.
            A – without
            theist – gods

            The ONLY characteristic of atheism is this: there’s no evidence for any god. Period.

            When there is evidence – testable, falsifiable evidence – every atheist will cease to say there is no evidence AND every “believer” will cease to believe because the thing will be shown to be true and we will all then KNOW.

          • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

            1. Atheism is solely the lack of belief in god.
            As mentioned already, things are tweaked as we gain knowledge. A truly intellectually honest person must change with the facts.

          • Jeffrey Cordero

            How about you look at the Dead Sea Scrolls… Almost the exact same as the Bible now

          • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

            No. only the book of Issaih was the same.

        • Sean Lee Walthour

          Ummm, science isn’t always inconclusive, if it never solved a problem, how did we invent the internet you are using? Hmmm

    • Ryan

      Are you a fucking moron?

      • Sev

        Oh!… Nice One.

        I was waiting for someone like you to come along…… Thanks, Ryan!

        (at least “admin” appears somewhat intelligent)

        I REST MY CASE

        • alan

          Ur statement is so fucking nonsensical that u deserve to b called a moron….how do u compare a sci fi book to what scientist claim after conducting actual research and thousands of experiments..someone once said that there are 2 things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and im not so sure about the universe.

          • Jeffrey Cordero

            How can we just mindlessly believe what the greatest scientists say? Heck, many of the greatest scientists and philosophers of all times are now proven wrong, there is no way you can say we know all truths about the areas of study. Of course someday many things we accept as truth will be completely done away with and new understandings and theories will be in place.

          • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

            please point to the greatest scientists and what they got wrong.

    • Yea, because there is EVIDENCE for scientific theories.

      And YEAH, scientific theories and findings SHOULD be questioned. The goal of science is to disprove its theories in order to develop better understandings and new/better theories. That’s the whole point of science! religion??? “Don’t dare ask a question or you’ll burn in hell. Just do with the invisible man says,son.”

    • Um Sev?… there’s not a scientist on the planet who uses their own writing to prove their own writing… HOWEVER, science DOES use its own experiments to prove themselves – which is to say repeated testing must provide the same result every time in order for the developed/developing theories to hold. But that is also an interesting thing because the point of repeated testing is to find the FAILURES, because it is the failures science seeks – they are what make for better science and better theories, ultimately. A failure allows the development of a new hypothesis as to WHY there was a failure, which leads to a new path of research and testing.

      As for the bible, you cannot say, “the bible is true because it says it is true,” as that is not a falsifiable statement. In order for anything to be true, it must be subject to outside verification. Where that concerns the bible, there is almost no verified history in it and many of the characters never existed, if outside evidence is to be relied on as corroboration.

      I know this is too long for you to read….

    • Rational E.T.

      The difference is that scientific findings have some physical evidence/reproducibility character, and are submitted to critical examination all the time.

    • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

      Bible: it’s this way beecause we say it is
      Science: get off your butt, do the work, get the same results.

    • Shaun Keefe

      Allow me to try to simplify this for you Sev,

      The bible only uses itself to verify the validity of its own contents. There is no other information or test outside of the bible that can verify the stories within the bible.

      By that reasoning I could say that Harry Potter and all the magic actually exists, because it says so in the Harry Potter books. See the problem?

      To determine if something is factual, we need external methods of verifying that thing. This is where Science comes in.

      Science is not an answer to a problem. It is a method to finding the best answers about our reality.

      When you hold up a pen and let it go, you can make a guess as to what will happen. You can record this and then have someone else independently test and verify your findings.

      Science has been proven to be the best and most reliable method to determining our reality. Science improves and our understanding about the world changes. Thats the great thing about scientific findings is that they are humble enough to say they were wrong if they were found to be wrong.

      Being able to say something was wrong and understand why, only allows us to improve our understanding about what is right.

      That being said, the bible has not withstood the same methods of testing and scrutiny with which we test everything else. It should be no exception.

      Yet so many people still believe it to be true.

      • Truth91

        You should check your dates because there are many story’s in the bible on history timelines if you actually seek it. And everyone knows that the Jews were never in slaved in Egypt. That’s why many people feel Afican American are the true chosen ppl and we do fit the description but they destroyed the history but they can never take the spirit. fact black is the absorption of every Coler given off from the sun.
        Fact kkk does not like black or Jews.
        Fact. Afican Americans are the only race who where captured near Egypt taking away from there homeland, beat, and forced to accept new names and I dentitys.
        Fact. I am a Afican American and have no clue of my roots

        • Shaun Keefe

          I was talking more on the order of the extraordinary claims.

          What I find very strange is that, according to the bible, there were many interactions between the Egyptians and the characters of the bible, particularly Moses, and Jesus.
          Yet there was not on scribble of a hieroglyph to depict them from the Egyptian’s stories. Egyptians were excellent historians. They kept records of when the Pharaoh was taking a leak(being facetious, but you get my point). Surely seeing a significant body of water do mysterious things such the parting of the Red Sea as depicted in the bible would have merited some recording. Surely the death of several generals and thousands of troops would have been noteworthy. Surely the arrival of a man claiming to be the son of the one true God would have made “headlines”. Or this man performing magical miracles. But nothing about this was recorded. The Romans never mention any encounter with Jesus or any invading armies like the bible describes either.

          The flood story is quite suspect as well considering there is no geological evidence of such a worldwide flood. There may have been local flooding and there may have been a man that built a boat and grabbed a handful of animals to protect them. But the actual flood story as depicted is highly suspect.

          Do you see where I’m going?

          The non-extraordinary claims I can believe. I believe David killed Goliath. One man killing another man is not extraordinary. The mundane stories are not the ones that are unbelievable.

  • Sev

    OK!… “if we return to christianity as the topic of discussion”…

    We all have freewill, and for better or for worse, freewill serves a purpose for everyone, including for Atheists. I don’t know why some Christians think it’s their duty to force or shove Christianity down another person’s throat, which infringes on freewill… but aren’t Atheists also to blame if they continually ask for proof/evidence of God and give a misleading impression that they’re interested, which encourages certain Christians?

    Personally, I simply don’t understand how anyone can logically ignore the possibility that something Greater is at work beyond physical reality, and beyond human comprehension… but should what I personally believe in, be a problem for you or for other Atheists?

    NO PROBLEM …as long as we respect each others individual rights!

    • mdx_jsilver

      Yes, it is a problem. Because you a liable to spread the beliefs to other people, who will then start thinking incorrect things about Science, something very concrete and that has gotten us very far. Science got us everything technology has to offer, including the computer you use to type your laughable comments. What has religion gotten us. A book of lies, and army of uneducated warmonger followers and not much else.

    • Daniel

      How to logically ignore the possibility that something greater ect: There is a possibility that I’ll be bitten by a rabid monkey, eaten by a tiger, or smashed by a falling piano, ect. if I leave my house tomorrow. However, concerning myself with such improbable events actually creates more and trouble than what my concern prevents.
      Now, apply this thinking to the something greater (calling it Cake). If Cake does exist it either doesn’t care and just lets nature run its course or it has taken an attitude of noninterference and is letting nature run its course. Our natural record of Cake’s coexistence with reality shows no deviation from this trend. So, just like I won’t concern myself with hungry tigers, rabid monkeys, or falling pianos I won’t concern myself with Cake. The chances of Cake changing its attitude simply because I leave my house are too slim to worry about.

      What does worry me is that my country is guided by the principles of people who believe an eternal Cake cares about them enough to fudge reality.

      • Sev

        Fair Enough!… Daniel, you have the freewill and the right to live as you please, as long as your actions don’t infringe on the rights of others.

        I don’t believe it’s a biblical concept to force Christianity onto anyone, or else freewill serves no purpose… but neither should Atheism be pushed or forced.

        We all have INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS …..
        We are all entitled to the Right to Life, Dignity, Justice, Freedom, etc… and regardless of sex/gender, race, religious beliefs, or lack of, our freewill to make choices should NEVER infringe on the Rights of others.

        • Pookie Ray

          Christianity was forced onto everyone, not to sound racist, everyone who wasn’t white and even then I can’t say some whites weren’t forced into it.

        • The bible expressly requires christians to go out and convert others. So yes, there is a biblically-based imperative that christians impose their beliefs on others.

          • Bill Smith

            Jesus told his disciples to leave a town and shake the dust off there feet if people rejected the Gospel. In other words move on and let them be. We share the Gospel, we are not called to force the gospel, (though many people do try to force it).

  • Ang

    I’ve been hearing a lot about this subject in recent years on History and the radio. Just now I’m looking for more detailed info. I even read somwhere that the Hebrews were a warrior tribe (I think Greek texts may have been cited) that the Egyptians contracted as mercenaries. The Hebrews grew dissatisfied with the arrangemet and left. I don’t know if that’s true. Still, it’s an interesting thought.
    I read your whole entry (unlike some other folks). Trying to get the word out, when you feel your fellow man is being lied to, is to be admired. We shouldn’t be afraid to question authority. Critical thinking…truth seeking…those are wonderful things. Religions tend to encourage followers to be sheep…to accept being treated like children. I’m glad we’re both adults. In future you may want to be more careful with your language. People who’s minds are closed to anything contradictory to their current world view find faulty word choices or sloppy blanket generalizations and use them to discredit authors. It is a well known way to win a fight. When you can’t (for lack of a better term) “disprove” the facts make the fight about your foe and the way he/she is fighting instead. Just submit the facts along with peer-reviewed evidence as plainly as possible. Keep opinion to a minimum. If folks won’t accept the findings presented in academic journals then you are not going to be able to change their minds. They do not think they are right; they believe they are right. Those are two very different things, and the latter is covered in psychological red tape. I wonder if these anti-science folks have considered that antibiotics, vaccines, municiple water sanitization, and the very internet we are all using would not be without scientific reason. If folks trust the findings of “big science” so little perhaps they should try going without those things. Perhaps prayers will cure strep throat? I guess it’s possible, but I’ll stick with the antibiotics if you don’t mind. 🙂

  • Tom Skylark

    Genesis 41:30 records a 7 year famine. Genesis 41:57 states the famine was worldwide.

    The first Shang Dynasty emperor Cheng Tang recorded the 7 year famine when he first became emperor of China in his first 7 years reigning.

    Amorite Babylonian king Abi-Eshuh damed up the the Tigris river to starve out the Sealanders who had invaded southern Babylonia during the global famine.

    Grant Jeffery mentioned the Yemen Stone found in a rich woman’s tomb where she sends her servents to buy grain from Joseph during the worldwide famine.

    Babylon, China and Yemen all show there was a worldwide famine at the time Joseph was governor over Egypt.

  • Jezebeelzebub

    just so you know, it IS possible to celebrate Passover without drinking the Kool-Aid. I’m Jewish and I celebrate the holy days, and I do it because it’s what my family does- what they have always done- because it is tradition. and I see nothing wrong with that. okay, so the slavery in Egypt never happened. but you know what did? lots of persecution. do you want to know what I see when I light the Shabbos candles? I see a line behind me of men and women who had to eat a lot of shit to get me where I am. they were people who endeavored to persevere in the face of adversity. they stayed true to their roots when it sure as hell was inconvenient for them, and when I get all Jewwy wit it, THAT is what I’m doing. I’m giving props to the ones who came before me- maybe not as far back as friggin Egypt, but I still feel like it’s legit. SO THERE!

  • Some interesting facts you chose to ignore.

    • You realize most of these “facts” point back to the bible as “evidence”..?

  • Pookie Ray

    That totally makes sense that only an educated person can tell us what God meant when he said this or that and in the mean time Jesus is running around with the poor, diseased, beggars and prostitutes

  • Um Brendan, yes, footnoted references ARE a correct way to cite information…

    Jesus is ALLEGED to have spoken. There is NO EVIDENCE that character was real. None.

    It is NOT extremely hard to find text or pottery older than 3000 years. You obviously have never been to England….

    And yes, they are Absolutely contradictions of the sort “god says this is good,” followed by “god says this (same thing) is bad.”

    Dude. Seriously. Google it.

    • Tom Youngblom

      Jesus, the man, exsisted. There are many writings of secular Romans (I assume you will discount the new testaments as evidence of his exsistance)

      – Flavius Josephus
      – Tacitus
      – Pliny the Younger
      – Emperor Trajan

      All have accounts written about the man Jesus.
      Most accounts talk about him as a magician, and try to disapprove his supernatural power. Not disprove his exsistance. He exsisted that is a historical fact, there is no way you can say Jesus didn’t physically exsist. You canot even question whether he died on the cross or not. This also has historical fact backing that up (see the writings of the above Romans). The only things you can question about Jesus is did he actually rise from the dead. And sense there is no body…we will never be able to prove or disprove that in our life times.

      I do find it funny, that people question Jesus and his existence and the Gospel writings. (Writings of his students/disciples). No one ever questions whether Socrates was real. There is more historcial evidence that Jesus exsisted than Socrates, yet Scorates is considered a great scholar and Jesus is considered a myth…


      • susan

        What is sad is that you don’t know that all of what you have written has been disproven. Even if jc did exist (and that is very questionable), that means nothing except for that some guy with that name existed, and maybe he was crucified, which was quite common at that time.

  • Bill Smith

    The Old Testament is a book of faith, but also the main historical record of the Jewish people. Pretty soon people will say that Abraham wasn’t really the father of the Jews and they never really lived in Israel. Come on people. If the exodus was not true, 2 million Jewish people would have known it, all their neighbors would have known it, and generations of people to follow would have made fools of them for saying it was true. Everybody back then knew it happened, (or they were extremely accommodating). The modern critics are a little late to be jumping in trying to say it never happened…about 3500 years late!

    • Joe Hayes

      Wait. What now? Do you always babble nonsensical bullshit like this?

  • smsavoy

    Yes, Africans owned slaves. if you go back two thousand years, slavery was pretty much universal: the Aztecs, the Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, the Indians, the Chinese – and the Africans: everyone practised it. One of the most widely known example of slavery is the Egyptian enslavement of Jews. The story of Moses leading his people out of slavery and to(but not into)the promised land.
    In the seventeenth century, North African slavers – the ‘Barbary Corsairs’ – enslaved large numbers of white Europeans, sometimes carrying off entire villages from Ireland and West of England – Africans enslaving Europeans! (See the book, White Gold, by Giles Milton.) None of which lessens the atrocity of the African slave trade, with something like 7 or 8 million black Africans transported to America. But it is crucial for those of African descent to understand that slavery is not something that only Africans have suffered. It has been a universal evil.
    Only in the 18th and 19th centuries did the British, primarily, begin to oppose the slave trade. During the American War of Independence, many black Americans fought FOR the British, AGAINST American Independence, on this account. Eventually slavery was diminished and finally stopped altogether.
    Or was it? If slavery continues to exist anywhere in the world, alas, it continues in Africa. In Mauretania, black servants of Arab masters are treated virtually as slaves, and reports of the same emerge frequently from the Sudan, whose long civil war is essentially a war of a Muslim Arab elite against a black Christian populace. JUST GOT FREE FROM MUSLIM. ALL THE MIDDLE EAT THAT ARE MUSLIMS COUNTRY ARE ENSLAVED MY MUSLIMS AND BLACK MUSLIMS…ALL I CAN SAY IS DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER IS NOT TO LET THESE PEOPLE START SHEREE LAW BETTER YET KEEP OUT IF U CAN

    • VegasNevada

      And people confuse the type of slavery that was of the ancient world with the brutal slavery suffered by those in the Hell of the Americas and Europe. Slaves in Africa/Rome, for the most part could read…they had rights, if a parent was a slave, it didn’t mean the child would be one. Families weren’t sold apart. You weren’t doomed to be a slave for life, there was upward mobility. You might have started off as a slave and wound up a politician or a general, etc. There is no comparison. People are using the word slavery too loosely. America’s slavery was hell on earth.

      • Shaun Keefe

        Way to try and justify the owning of another human being as property. What an immoral, uneducated shitbag you are.

        And America’s slavery was nothing compared to the slavery imposed by Catholic England onto the Protestant Ireland.
        Maybe you should open up a book other than your NIV Bible and learn something about the world’s history before you open your morally destitute mouth and spew out another load of hot garbage.

  • smsavoy

    And the came the 600 A.D. Arabia’s muslim and made them convert to muslims jihad enslave the blacks and made them slaves they are still muslims jihad slaves and are torcher and they have sheree law ..

    North African slavers – the ‘Barbary
    Corsairs’ – enslaved large numbers of white Europeans, sometimes carrying off
    entire villages from Ireland
    and West of England – Africans enslaving Europeans! (See the book, White Gold,
    by Giles Milton.) None of which lessens the
    atrocity of the African slave trade, with something like 7 or 8 million black
    Africans transported to America.
    But it is crucial for those of African descent to understand that slavery is
    not something that only Africans have suffered. It has been a universal evil.

    Only in the 18th and 19th centuries did the British, primarily, begin to oppose
    the slave trade. During the American War of Independence, many black Americans
    fought FOR the British, AGAINST American Independence, on this account.
    Eventually slavery was diminished and finally stopped altogether.

    Or was it? If slavery continues to exist anywhere in the world, alas, it
    continues in Africa. In Mauretania, black
    servants of Arab masters are treated virtually as slaves, and reports of the
    same emerge frequently from the Sudan,
    whose long civil war is essentially a war of a Muslim Arab elite against a
    black Christian populace.

  • Tom

    So much apologist butthurt in here…

  • Christina Elizabeth Burton

    Ummm….. I did Google it and guess what. Read the following website:

    So I guess since it’s on the internet– it’s true now right? Point
    is if God wanted everything to be proven and EASY to believe- there
    would be no such thing as faith.

  • Mike

    “The Jews Were Never Slaves in Egypt”

    Neither were the other eleven tribes

  • Bermicourt

    It’s a bold statement to say “it never happened”, particularly as there are huge gaps in our knowledge of Egypt at that time. Nevertheless there are fragments of evidence that may indicate the presence of Israelites in a part of Egypt, of which the best known is the Merneptah Stele which tantalizingly refers to a people called the Habirus (spot the similarity to Hebrews!). So as far as the scholars are concerned the jury’s still out.

  • Eseosa Obadiaru

    In this age of wide spread knowledge via globalization, it will be pitifull for statements to be made without rigorous scientific investigation. Rigour is part of science and the write up above seem not to have undergone it. Falacious statements tainted with one sided perception and religious/anti-religios sentiment in unhelpful and retrogressive to any reseacher, especially in this age. The writer should be aware that the Bible is the only book that gives a reasonable account of creation. It is also the single most relevant book since the begining of time. And “unbiased” scientist agree to it infact validating facts and truths writing in it. There have been several attempts by many to destroy it but(both phsically, verballyand otherwise) but,it has mysteriously survived. Please tell me how. The dead sea scrolls found in 1947 matches with the present day bible, after being hidden in a caves for well over a thousand years (from the Romans and others who desired to destroy it). What of newer scrolls being found by archeologist. These scrolls have been tested using radiocarbon dating methods, showing that they were writing long before the birth of Jesus. If you say the Bible is false, is the radio carbon method false? was the the discovery false?, can archeology be lying? Please find out! how come a book, so old accurately contain the names of towns cities and villages which are still in existence today. How can a book that is false contain the beliefs of a people you see today. How can a book that is false acurately talk about the politics of the world and predict the future, before science evolved. How come? How come? Please lets do our research very well with an open mind in search of TRUTH before writing and blogging. Thank you.

  • Yisroela

    Perhaps if the Egyptian authorities actually allowed anyone on archeological digs, we’d have the “evidence”

  • Yisroela

    There is absolute proof of Biblical accuracy found within Pharaoh’s papyrus scrolls that tells stories about plagues throughout the land of Egypt, the Nile turning to blood and water turning to blood everywhere, herds of the field being smitten by hail, the land being overcome by a thick darkness and the death of the firstborn of Egypt. You discount the Biblical account, now what say you of the account written within actual Egyptian history that correlates the Biblical accuracy? The findings I speak of are the result of research conducted by Dr. Galit Dayan. She has a Ph.D. in Egyptology.

    • Chris Lemon

      yes there is evidence in the scrolls of the plagues but the plagues did happen, there is scientific evidence that they did happen however it is not the work of an all powerful creator.

      A volcano nearby erupted at the time and has been linked as the cause of all of the plagues

    • Shaun Keefe

      Let me finish that last sentence for you.

      She has a Ph.D. in Egyptology from Hebrew University of Jerusalem, HUJ is a theistically biased college in a third world country with no worldwide accreditation. As a matter of fact, HUJ is only accredited in Israel by the Jews.

      She has not placed her research up for peer review and verification by the scientific and historical community.

      And this is what I have to say about it:

      Even if her stories correlate to a story in the bible, it does not prove the accuracy of the bible. Someone scribbled down that there was a plague on a scroll and someone else scribbled down that there was a plague. One happened to be a Pharaoh’s scribe. The other happened to be a moderately educated caveman/tribesmen whose record was used in the bible. That is only evidence that the “plague” may have happened. It does not verify the existence of Jesus, the resurrection, God or anything else the bible says.

      Just because there are some things that correlate to a story in the Bible does not validate the entirety of the Bible.
      That would be like saying, “The Harry Potter books took place in England, and England exists. Therefore, Harry Potter is real and so is the magic they perform.”

      And no one is discounting the believable stories of the Bible. I believe that a “plague” (if you call it that) happened at the time they stated. It is the ridiculously outlandish claims and the immorality of the Bible that I personally discount.

      Your smug attitude just got sat the fuck down. Wanna try another attempt at “being smart” or are you done?

  • Yisroela

    Those who actually read the Torah know that it never mentions the pyramids. Our ancestors were brickmakers and field workers. And with that, slavery suddenly seems more plausible. There were always slaves in Egypt. Amongst them Hebrew slaves. The Bible mentions that they were engaged in the locations Pythom and Ramses, not in building the Pyramids.

    • paul brandel

      Stop with the bible and the Torah,where is the evidence from archalogy? You can only talk about your sacred books!

  • Yisroela

    The links selected by the author are only showing one side of the story… Convenient that! We all know that internet is an endless plethora of information – one can find links that suit one’s point/idea while ignoring the opposing view. In this case, the author is so eager to tear down religion and tradition that he chooses to ignore an entire science of archeology and all that has been discovered about Hebrews in Egypt in decades past – before Egyptian authorities shut the gates to any archeological expeditions that contradict their revisionist pseudo-academic version of history.

    “Good scholars, honest scholars, will continue to differ about the interpretations of archaeological remains simply because archaeology is not a science, it is an art. And sometimes it is not even a very good art.”
    – William Dever, Professor of Near Eastern Archaeology and Anthropology, University of Arizona

    The proof, among other places, can be found here:

    Lastly, science and religion are not mutually exclusive, nor are at odds these days. The only reason someone may desire to tear down the foundation of the Western civilization we built and live in, is to do away with the morality so well outlined in the 10 commandments. Each revisionist usually has a personal reason. Ultimately, they are afraid that those who still adhere to the basic precepts of Judeo-Christian morality will somehow disapprove of his choices. One feels that he must bend the entire world to his standards. Just another form of dictatorship instead of live and let live. “C’mon, be reasonable – see things my way”

  • RandolphRay

    The book of exodus does not paint the nation Israel in a very good light .
    At all .
    Their leader is a murder who in the end is so disobedient to God that he is
    not even allowed into the promised land .
    The people are so disobedient that on the day the law came down over
    4000 of them were killed because of their sin .
    The rest of them were eventually sentenced to wander the wilderness until they
    died never to enter the promised land .
    I have to ask can anyone name any religious text concocted by the followers
    which portrays said followers so badly ?
    You can’t do it .
    And why do you think you can’t ?

  • scottytreid

    The Ashkenazi Jews in the UN created state of Israel are Europeans, more than like Russian or Germany, have no genetic connection to the land. Yet Christians have “faith” that these are the descendants of ancient people. Christianity promotes racism white supremacy.

  • Meri Da

    Merenptah (Merneptah), the 4th King of Egypt’s 19th Dynasty would disagree with you.
    he is known to have written the following on one of the tombs:

    “The princes are prostrate saying: “Shalom!”
    Not one of the Nine Bows lifts his head:
    Tjehenu is vanquished, Khatti at peace,
    Canaan is captive with all woe.
    Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized,
    Yanoam made nonexistent;
    Israel is wasted, bare of seed,
    Khor is become a widow for Egypt.
    All who roamed have been subdued.
    By the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun,
    Son of Re, Merenptah, Content with Maat,
    Given life like Re every day.”

    furthermore they werent called hebrews back then. they were called hyksos.

    also people saying the pyramids were built by slaves is ridiculous. that isnt biblical. its joseph also known as imhotep who built them. they were NOT slaves at that time!. joseph was made a full egyptian citizen & had built those things BEFORE his people even showed up!

    also you know how the red sea is formed right. with 2 branches? the one on the left is incredibly steep edge into the deep but th one on the right has a land bridge with a 3000 drop on one side & a 5000 drop into the sea on the other side. that land bridge is strewn with golden chariot parts & skulls of horse & human. a stupid british man recently robbed the place so now some people are going to try to put some security around it.

    hope that helps…

  • johnpjones

    To confirm this, you can read (or download) a book online for free. It’s by Tel Aviv University History Professor Shlomo Sand and it’s called “The Invention of the Jewish People”. Find it here:

  • nanorazor

    No archaeological evidence does not prove it does not exist but that it is remain unexplained. There to needs be archaeological evidence pointing that slavery did not exist in order to prove this, and this does not. It like say Aliens does not exist because there are no clear evidence of them. Also Bible is infallible is not supported by all Christians, by saying this your just generalising.

  • StEwPiD_MoNkEy

    Lol, yet he ordered mosses to kill the same people. Lol. Fickle god. Reference my post above about absolute knowldege.

  • David Forrest

    your bible is a book of lies!God tell his prophet they should not kill,few verses into this book, he tell his inspired prophets to kill men,women,and children’s! that contradiction! Then it’s always talking about killing People of Kemet,and Ethiopians

  • Shaun Keefe

    Uh Christopher?
    Have you not heard about how the Christians actively fight against gay marriage, abortion, science and relentlessly condemn those who do not believe as they do?

    I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news to you, but Christians force their agenda quite a bit. If all of you believers would keep your noses on your own faces and stay the hell out of everyone else’s choices, then we would let you worship whatever fairy-tale, sky wizard you want. But as long as people like you feel like you get to make choices for people like me, then people like me will always fight you.

  • Truth91

    If Scientist are so smart answer theses few questions for me
    1. What l lies behind the sun ?
    2. What’s up with the Bermuda Triangle ?
    3. Where’s the Malaysia plan?

  • Truth91

    God is real why is that so hard for ppl to believe. Ppl believe in Aliens,lock nest monsters
    And big foot. But can’t believe in a higher power who has showed his strength thru many of followers. …… Repent seek and you shall receive…. With the world going crazy now ain’t the time to be going against god. God didn’t hand all theses greedy evil ppl who run just about everything. but believing in god gives you hope. Some ppl been feeling the alter pull on em since kids and still running. But to refuse the gift of life is like giving up yo birth rights

    • pampes

      That’s fine. Believe in God if it gives you hope. There is nothing wrong with that. There IS something wrong with dictating others must believe that. I do not require ‘hope.’ I do not live for ‘hope.’ That is a silly concept to me, but I acknowledge its importance to others. However, you are confused with the belief God has showed himself through followers. The followers show their own strength by pushing God on others. That is a major distinction.
      With regards to the article, it is correct, yet inaccurate. There was slavery in ancient Egypt as there was throughout the ancient world. Yet there is no evidence of a mass Exodus, and without question the Jews did not build pyramids. There is no debate on that. Whether Hebrews were Hyksos in Egypt is debated.

  • Apis Carpatica

    The Ipuwer Papyrus confirs the 10-plagues story of Moses, while the Jabal al-Lawz archeological site(s) in Saudi Arabia confirm the Exodus story.
    All your other criticisms of the BIble will meet similar fates if you do your research (i’m not a Christian btw, i just hate uneducated clowns).

  • sarge

    God and religion are ignorance. They exist for the sole purpose to remove the fear in us for those things that we do not understand, or are ignorant about. We had no idea what rain was, why things died, or scared us so we created a greater power to explain everything. It is also used as a crutch by those who do not have the strength of faith in themselves.

  • Kristen Champlin

    If you are going to say something, make sure your facts are right. YES I am talking to you atheists. We are not FORCING anything down your throats. If you think that then I suggest that you leave this conversation before you get showed up by someone who knows more. If none of you believe in Creation, then you must believe that we were created some other way (Evolution, Abiogenesis) both of which I have ample proof against. (BTW, saying that Jesus and God never existed, does not validate it, its like oook, you believe there is no such thing as God, saying it doesn’t change anything)

    Evolution- Have found no intermediate or common ancestor (if we are gonna talk about no proof, lets start with that)

    .A genetic mutation needs to occur (And one that would help it “evolve” into something else) Look up the chances of that, (they are REALLY small)

    .And not only does one organism need to have a genetic mutation, but two, so that the pair may reproduce an offspring with the same mutation.


    – Do some simple Biology, Even the simplest of cells, are in fact very VERY complicated, did not just HAPPEN, Someone created everything with care.
    -Not enough? How much harder is it to believe that in an instant we just appeared just like that? Logic….
    And if you believe in Evolution, then how did the first “creature” get on earth? “Which came first, the chicken or the egg?” So if your going to disagree, then (before you get all pissed at me, and reply stupid things) Take some time and THINK about what i’m saying, and consider the possibility that I may be right. I believe these are logical points. So I hope you do too.

  • This article is great, but it needs more direct sources. Can anyone cite the archaeologists and/or DNA evidence mentioned?

    • Joe Hayes

      You can use Google like i did. Everything stated in this article is true and can be found in other sources and articles all over.

      • That defeats the purpose of documenting anything and promotes filling the internet with gossip and he-said/she-said. If your point is to convince people with evidence, I’m allowed to claim “[citation needed]”.

        This is coming from an atheist who realizes the Bible is full of bullshit, but your case can be so much stronger if you’d support it with a good citation or two.

  • Jerlmichael B Sykes

    This is the DUMBEST article ever written haha!

    Of course JeWish people would deny the truth because they aren’t the real Jews, they WISH they were Jews as stated in Revelations 2:9

    ‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

    So of course satania would say “this story never happened.” We have DNA evidence, carbon dating, inter breeding… ” blah blah dumb dumb lie lie… BS!

    What a load of crap.

    As stated in Exodus 1:8

    “8 Eventually, a new king came to power in Egypt who knew nothing about Joseph or what he had done. 9 He said to his people, “Look, the people of Israel now outnumber us and are stronger than we are. 10 We must make a plan to keep them from growing even more. If we don’t, and if war breaks out, they will join our enemies and fight against us. Then they will escape from the country.

    11 So the Egyptians made the Israelites their slaves. They appointed brutal slave drivers over them, hoping to wear them down with crushing labor. They forced them to build the cities of Pithom and Rameses as supply centers for the king. 12 But the more the Egyptians oppressed them, the more the Israelites multiplied and spread, and the more alarmed the Egyptians became. 13 So the Egyptians worked the people of Israel without mercy. 14 They made their lives bitter, forcing them to mix mortar and make bricks and do all the work in the fields. They were ruthless in all their demands.”

    The Bible cannot be understood by heathens and scientist like the jackass who wrote this article, because it wasn’t meant for them, it’s meant for the Hebrew Israelite’s as an accurate accounting of history, our history, the 12 tribes of Israel.

    You cannot hide the truth or try and justify it with your science, also note that the Bible is not religion, it is the Heritage and history of the Hebrew Israelite’s.

    How can you deny the history of a people? As you do unto other’s so shall it be done unto you and your children as stated in Exodus 20:5

    You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

    You who wrote this article know that the Hand of God is against you. When the Lord empowers me I will personally find you and beat you to a pulp with a metal plated Bible and then in that moment you will know what is real!

  • lashy_one

    This is the dumbest article, don’t you guys have anything better to do than bash someone’s religious belief? 1. The “jews” in Israel now, are not the real Israelte they are imposters as the BIble teaches.

  • Nick_Sporek

    The Bible never claims the Hebrew/Israelites built the pyramids.

    Ancient Egyptians had slavery, that is well documented and for there to have been slaves from Israel, a neighbouring country isn’t a far fetched idea.

    The biblical account of the exodus was obviously written long after the event and more than likely exaggerated the story. Later enslavements of the Israelites by the Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks and Romans are documented in second sources beyond the bible. Because a 4000 year old event isn’t documented by a second source or hasn’t yet been found doesn’t mean it never happened to any degree.
    Egyptians sometimes like to erase or refrain from recording embarrassing events from there records much like modern governments do today, do some basic research on Pharaoh Akhenaten. We use 3rd world slaves to our advantage today but you won’t find that in any school books, will you?

    There are strong parallels between the biblical commandments and the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Moses is an Egyptian name and a name held by several Egyptian Pharaohs before his time.

    It is only a modern theory and not “common knowledge” that paid ancient Egyptians built the pyramids.

    There is way better proof that the god of the bible isn’t true but this story seems to use half truths, exaggeration and is grasping at straw at best. Next time read the bible and don’t just watch the Hollywood versions before you criticize it.

    FYI, I’m not a believer but any learned bible/archaeology student could take this article apart.

  • Lynn

    Who were the people buried alive to help the pharaoh on his way to paradise? I’m sure they were happy to help and went gladly. What was it like as they watched the happy builders build their grave?

  • If you saw it, would you believe it?

  • When the priests of the temple write history, do we have to believe their words without proof…!
    Is the slaves are able to create a civilization?
    Where is their civilization in which called the Promised Land?

  • Lottie Richard

    There is actually a great deal of evidence that they used slaves, for the record. For example, in the Medinet Habu temple of Ramesses III, he details several wars in regnal years 5, 8, and 11, specifically, where they battles the Libyans and Philistines and took tens of thousands of slaves, ultimately weakening their empire by taking in more mouths than they could feed. I wrote my thesis on it…

  • V Dub

    The underlying issue with your assault on Roberts beliefs is the inherent problem with religion. Science and all other things are open to discussion and questioning, where as the blind faith of religion by those who believe will not allow questioning or discussion at the possibility of fallacy. The conversation started on the basis of the article stating that there is no evidence to support the bible’s claims that Jews were slaves. Therefore by continuing to change topics and readjust your opinion based assault on Roberts factual discussion illuminates the fact that you are wrong.

  • Michael Kirchmann

    Why argue? If you show them the science, they will only deny its validity. You cannot fix stupid.

  • me987

    Best Answer: Before the Israelites moved into the Promised Land, they were known in Egypt and environs as the Apiru (= Hebrews). There is also confusion caused by Egyptologists using a chronology that could be out of kilter with biblical chronology, and so Egyptologists have long scoffed the Bible account, saying the facts just don’t fit their reckoning. One Egyptologist has written two books (from which Channel 4 documentaries were made) offering alternative dates and adjusted interpretations of discoveries. He firmly believes that the real Israelite city of the bondage was Avaris, buried beneath the 19th Dynasty capital, Pi-Ramesse. He believes there was indeed a large western-Asiatic slave population sojourning in the delta and Nile valley during the 13th Dynasty. The north-west Semitic language group includes biblical Hebrew.

    In the Brooklyn Museum is a tattered papyrus roll, 35.1446, dated to a generation before the birth of Moses in his new chronology. The recto of the Brooklyn papyrus shows that half of the domestic slaves on one Egyptian estate were Asiatics who had been given Egyptian names, and several names are biblical names. For example, there are variants of the tribal Issachar, the name of the fifth son of Leah by Jacob; Asher’s clan name occurs (the second son of Zilpah by Jacob); then there is the name Shiphrah who was one of the two Hebrew midwives instructed to kill the Israelite newborn males in Exodus 1:15-21. Other documents confirm that the size of the Asiatic community in Egypt at that time was significant. Further, graves at Tell ed-Daba showed more females than males in the burial population of Avaris, which would fit in with the cull of male Hebrew babies.

    Moses, according to Artapanus, was born in the reign of a pharaoh called Khaneferre (Khenephres). Eighty years later, he had to deal with the 13th Dynasty pharaoh, Dudimose. According to Manetho, in the reign of Dudimose “a blast of God smote us” (i.e. the Egyptians) and the archaeology of Avaris shows that, around this time, there was a terrible catastrophe.

    As for pyramid building – huge amounts of manual labourers would be needed – no skills required. Making mud and straw bricks could even be done by children. A pyramidion of Ay and an unknown ruler were found in the vicinity of Tell ed-Daba. The location of this clear evidence of pyramids in the eastern delta tends to suggest that the pharaohs of the mid 13th Dynasty were buried at Avaris and probably therefore also resided there. This does not prove that the Hebrews, en-masse, built pyramids, but that some could have done. They certainly did make bricks.

    The author has restored a cult statue which he believes to be an image of the Patriarch Joseph. There is a black granite statue of Amenemhat III, who was the pharaoh of the seven-year famine in the new chronology (which Joseph oversaw successfully). A reconstruction has been made of Joseph’s Egyptian palace, and there is the Bahr Yussef (Waterway of Joseph).

    A final point about slavery as mentioned in the Hebrew scriptures: slaves could be treated reasonably well, even given medical care and decent living conditions by their masters if they realised that the better they were looked after, the better work they’d get out of them, and the longer they would live. The liberated Hebrews themselves had very high standards and time-limits for holding slaves (they had to be set free every 50th Jubilee year). This was because they were never to forget that they too had once been slaves. They were not to sink to pagan levels but to rise above them.
    Source(s):A Test of Time by David M. Rohl (Channel Four Books, 1995) Chapter 13, Exodus.


  • Dave Adams

    The opinion that the Bible is infallible is not shared universally across Christianity and Judaism. Many do believe it is infallible. Many do not. Many find the Bible to be inspiring stories but do not regard them as history. Many take them literally.
    You might check your post a bit more. The word should be “well paid” not “payed” unless you are a ship captain or are writing this from 1700.
    No need for the snarky tone. Many Christians are open minded and find such information interesting. Speaking for myself, I have known for some time the facts you laid out.

  • DC Bowden

    Very poor argumentation. First, you don’t even get the narrative of the Bible correct (which is why you don’t even quote the relevant passages. I think you probably did this on purpose) The Bible never claims the Jews built the Pyramids. The narrator writes the Jews were enslaved to make mud bricks with straw and then at one point they were made to go and find the straw themselves. This period would have been during the Middle Kingdom, well after the time of the great pyramids and exactly the age when smaller pyramids were made using mud bricks with straw that were then finished with a granite finish. You’re not arguing in the right Egyptian time period!

    Your second point is argued just as poorly. You claim you know for sure this never happened because there has been no proof found. But that’s just an appeal to ignorance. First off, the Bible is a historical document that claims it happened, but you deny that evidence out of convenience. Second, no evidence has been found to contradict the Biblical narrative at all. But, since no evidence has been found to prove it beyond all doubt you claim this is absolute proof it didn’t happen. That’s just a joke. The only absolute statement you can make is that there has been no evidence found to either confirm or contradict what the Bible says concerning the Jews in Egypt.

    Seriously, this article may make people who already dismiss the Bible and have never taken a freshman course in logic go, “Yeah man! That’s right!” But seriously, this is just very weakly argued.

  • Jared Vaughn

    An argument from silence is not the most stable ground for making an assertion. Your article presupposes that archaeologists always find what they’re looking for and that they always interpret what they are seeing accurately. Also, it is good to remember that we all start with presuppositions. A false presupposition can direct an entire experiment and taint the results because the scientist, or in this case archaeologist, is expecting a certain thing, and, if s/he’s not careful, s/he can wind up being thoroughly convinced of the veracity of falsehoods.

  • Splog

    Some people are locked in this mythology prison, and they have been brainwashed for so long, they cannot get themselves out of it. I was talking to a lady recently who didnt know that all the supernatural aspects of the Christ story (virgin birth, resurrection, 12 disciples, december birthday, born in a manger/stable, etc.) were borrowed from older mythology. She refused to believe me, when in fact, it’s all right there in the history books. Same with the old testament. For example, how could the patriarchs, with their Hebrew names, have been named such, when Hebrew wasnt even invented until centuries after they lived? They are obviously literary creations who never actually existed in real life. The list of anachronisms goes on and on. It was never meant to be an accurate historical account, and yet, some people take it literally.

  • WeDeserveConsiderationToo

    It isn’t a competition. We don’t care if it didn’t happen. We believe and follow the message of Jesus which was non-violence, forgiveness, Kindness and Honesty at all times we are to live our lives as Christians in this way.

  • Cliven

    While I strongly suspect that Exodus, if it happened, was probably a far smaller-scale (and possibly unnoticeable to the Egyptians) event (at least, w/respect to the Hebrews escaping), the pieces of “evidence” noted above are oft either false, or misleading. **The Jews never claimed to have built the pyramids.** They claimed to have been forced to build store-cities. A lack of records in Egypt is IN NO WAY evidence contrary to the Bible, as the Jews were just one of many (very minor) foreign peoples of similar appearance (this might even be part of the stated reason they were enslaved: Egyptians were worried that these foreign squatters might join w/Egypt’s foreign enemies, possibly due to an assumed shared heritage with them). The Egyptians also ABSOLUTELY took and kept slaves, mostly from war prisoners, such as Nubians, who were oft fighting Egypt. More, the Egyptians were notoriously vicious historical revisionists: some of the worst, in fact, whenever something embarrassing to someone in power happened. Many times, our take on Egyptian history has had to be completely
    rewritten simply because **someone, ages ago, destroyed all records of MAJOR events and personages.** Thus, one should actually *expect* there to be no records of the Hebrews in Egypt.

  • Johan Koch
  • Jon-Michael Ivey

    The bible never hints that the Israelites were involved in building pyramids.The Israelites were only described as inhabiting one small region of Egypt, the land of Goshen near the delta. That was very far from the site of the pyramids. It said that they had to build the store houses out of bricks made of mud and straw in two cities located in the river delta. They would never be trusted to build anything sacred, only mundane public words for storing grain and local tax revenues. The building materials described are not particularly durable, especially in a wet climate, so it would be odd to have extensive evidence. The bible never identifies them as slaves at all, except in very poor translations. They were not chattel slaves; individuals still owned their own property and could not be bought and sold. Rather, they were reduced to the same sort of serfdom as most Egyptian commoners. That meant being subject to high taxation, some of which was in the form of forced labor for a limited number of days per year, and migration restrictions that required getting written permission from the local government officials to travel more than a few miles. The bible actually blames Joseph for reducing the status of ordinary Egyptians to that point, and says that the Pharoah (probably a Hyksos ruler of Canaanite rather than Egyptian ethnicity) granted his family members a special exemption like that given to priests and nobles. The Exodus account seems to point to a new dynasty (likely the start of the New Kingdom) revoking those privileges, but not being especially harsh on them compared to ordinary Egyptians until after Moses provoked their ruler by making arrogant demands. Once they were finally given permission to leave, the first thing the Hebrews did was plunder a town of all its riches and take the inhabitants as slaves, which gave Pharoah a good reason to try to hunt them down.

  • Hackney geezer

    Now do one about the Koran? Too scared?

  • aaticusa

    Religion is the most common form of supersticion.

  • David Blomstrom

    Wow, I never knew the pyramids were built by well paid workers. However, I’m not surprised to hear that the Exodus is a myth. The Jews lie about everything else. In fact, I’ve joined the millions of people who are asking questions about the Holocaust.

  • steve talbert

    The “land” of Egypt is probably misinterpreted from the ‘court’ of Egypt or the ‘kingdom’ of Egypt.. Like how the word County is from Count. The Egyptians were in Palestian during the period that is talked about in the Bible, and basically used the locals like slaves, so it’s the same thing… only in a different location.

  • Yehoshua Jacobs

    It takes just one bit of archaeological evidence to disprove all this “lack of evidence” as PROOF that it DIDN’T happen. Me thinks the assholes who write these articles protesteth too much as they seem to disregard and disbelieve a plethora of “unexplained” FACTS. Let it suffice to say if you go to youtube, try to explain away the find on the bottom of the Red Sea chariots and other metallic objects from the time of the Exodus? Just youtube: “More Evidence of Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea Found in 2000” Also see THE EXODUS REVEALED. Remember, all you need is ONE proof, to destroy all these atheistic “scholarly” opinions.

  • Collen

    Well, turn of the Spirit of Creation… Be patient it is at hand!

  • Google: “Molech” & learn about the REAL self-inflicted holocaust. Molech makes Hitler look like Martha Stewart.

  • Dean Goulding

    The Hebrews slave of Egypt where black Semitic not black Hamitic ! You are starting off wrong so will lead yourself to confustion

  • Zorro21c

    Maybe the Jews were employed as cheap labours like fast-food restaurants to employ Philippinos or US building companies to hire cheap labours from Mexico. Also slaves collected as prisoners of wars were used to build buildings and palaces or Pyramids in ancient time was a normal practice.

  • Spookyjedi

    There sure are quite a bit of opinions that sound very intellectual and well thought-out. But it’s obvious that there is no Surety or any real peace of mind in any of these ideas. There is a truth that ignorance is not Bliss. And what you don’t know can hurt you. It’s takes more faith to believe that there is no God, that the Bible is not true and there is nothing more when we die. The Bible verse speak that people would rather believe a lie than the truth and it’s only obvious after reading these statements. Because if we’re to believe that God is real and that his word is infallible, we will understand that we are all sinners separated from a living God and rejection of the ultimate love gift ever presented to any other human being, will ultimately bring God’s judgment on us and that our Eternal Soul will be separated from him in a place called hell. You may take that as a joke but sure enough as you live and breathe and feel and all your senses work, we will live on after this life and where we end up heaven or hell is our choice not God’s. And yes God is all loving but he does not send us to hell we decide to reject Jesus Christ and his ultimate sacrifice for saving us from destruction. We cannot live our life on this Earth doing what we want and then think that we have the right to just move in on God when we die. We need a relationship with him by believing on his son Jesus Christ that he paid the price for your and my sins and accepting his gift of eternal life. Just admit that you’re a sinner and that you need Jesus to save you and the word of God promises you will be a child of God it’s that simple it’s even easier then the convoluted lies that this world tells you. I want to challenge everybody that reads this to make an intellectual decision before writing off God and His word the Bible. It may take a year or more but it’ll be well worth it if you make the right decision.

  • lanoo

    There is nothing but KARMA AND REINKARNATION! As you sow you shall reap,LIFE AFTER LIFE! That is how we learn and that is what THE BOOK OF LIGHT teaches. Forget the lies (Exodus, etc.) of the past, make the change from beliebers into KNOWERS! See on amazon DIVINE MESSAGE FROM THE TRUE GOD by lanoo.

  • lanoo

    There is nothing but KARMA AND REINKARNATION! As you sow you shall
    reap,LIFE AFTER LIFE! That is how we learn and that is what THE BOOK OF
    LIGHT teaches. Forget the lies (Exodus, etc.) of the past, make a
    change from believers into KNOWERS! Read DIVINE MESSAGE FROM
    THE TRUE GOD by lanoo. (on amazon)

  • lanoo

    The time has come to unite all religions in the world under ONE SCRIPTURE!

  • Dude67

    Hilarious how the Israelites couldn’t have been held in slavery in Egypt because there is no “archeological evidence”, yet man evolved from apes although not a single transitional fossil has ever been found. Tons of fossils of prehistoric apes, and early humans, but the in-between thing has never shown up. Hmmmmm….

  • David Blomstrom

    Jewish propaganda is just as bad as Christian mythology. See my response @

  • Lavo

    Okay so just for the record…The Bible never said that the Jews built the Pyramids. What it actually says is that Joseph came to Eygpt as a slave, gone up the ranks to become a high ranking government official. The Pharoah of that time greatly respected Joseph and as a result his people were able to come to egypt and live at peace. After Joseph had died and a new Pharoah came into rule, he noticed that the Hebrews were becoming more prosperous and they were growing in number. He saw the Hebrews as a threat to his kingdom and did not want to risk the Hebrews possibly trying to conquer Eygpt, overthrowing him and placing a king of their own in the land (even though it was never their plan to) so he ordered the male children to be killed. Perhaps he heard the Hebrew prophecies of a coming Messiah and believed that this King might show up in his time so wanted to stop that from happening by attempting to kill all male children.

    This all resulted in the enslavement of the Hebrews. They could have been servants doing many other building projects or just tought general labor and I would not be so surprised that the egyptians did not record the exodus of the Hebrews. If it really happened, it would be too humiliating to talk about. There could be many reasons why we cannot find certain things pertaining to the Hebrews being in Eygpt or just history in general. I am sure that there are many great events that happened in the world’s history that we do not have evidence for for unknown reasons. All I am saying is be open minded. We did not live in those days. No amount of study could ACCURATERLY and PRECISELY tell us the attitudes the people and the “why” concerning changes or events. All we can do is speculate on what we have.

  • Logan

    Actually there were Egyptian workers, the Jews. There is not only the Bible to prove it, archaeological evidence to prove it as well.

  • John LaRoche

    how does everyone here know their is no god?